Sample and discuss dances beyond Ceroc and Modern Jive...
Tango, Salsa, West Coast Swing, Lindy, Ballroom, Ceilidh, Gum boot dancing, Line dancing, Morris dancing, etc...
Astro wrote:So does the Codigo happen mid dance or at the end of the first or second of the 3 dances in the Tanda?
Not sure what you're asking here?
"Codigos" = "Codes"; it's the generic name for the various cultural conventions of the dance.
"Cabaceo" = "the 'You askin' bit"; this is the non-verbal way of asking and accepting / refusing a dance. The "cabaceo" is one of the "Codigos" - and obviously, happens before the dance starts
I'm not sure if there's a specific name for the "thank you" convention...?
Jivetango Godfather "if your arguments are poorly constructed, they are often misinterperetated" - CJ
Far be it for me to critcise a dance which is basically a version of pole dancing where each dancer takes turns in being the pole (just kidding DB ) but this seems to me to be a perfect example of what can go wrong when you structure a dance too much. Too many rules, too many conventions. Asking someone to dance is not that difficult. Honest.
Cabeceo (see also Codigos)
From la cabeza (f) -- head: Traditional technique for selecting dance partners from a distance at the milongas in Buenos Aires by using eye contact and head movements.
The cabeceo makes the invitation to dance less stressful as it allows the invited person to decline discretely.
Non-verbal cues are frequently used. So, as you are getting ready to ask someone to dance, try to catch their eye, smile and nod. You might raise your eyebrows in an inquiring expression or directing a nod towards the dance floor. Observe their body language. For instance, if you make eye-contact and the other person quickly turns away, pretends not to see you, or busies themselves in some way, it means they do not want to dance. On the other hand, if your potential partner returns your eye-contact with a smile and/or a nod, you are encouraged to invite them verbally (ie. "would you like to dance?").
When inviting a person who is in the presence of their significant other, it is courteous to ask their significant other for permission. Be friendly but not flirtatious and avoid dance moves that are sexually suggestive. Avoid monopolizing anyone’s partner with multiple tandas (see Tanda in The Tango Dictionary).
Tanda
A set of dance music, usually three to five songs, of the same dance in similar style, if not by the same orquesta. The tandas are separated by a brief interlude of non tango music called a “cortina”, or curtain, during which couples select each other. It is customary to dance the entire tanda with the same partner unless the man is rude or very disappointing as a dance partner, in which case the lady may say gracias (thank you) and leave. See Codigos, Cortina
David Bailey wrote:Not sure what you're asking here?
"Codigos" = "Codes"; it's the generic name for the various cultural conventions of the dance.
"Cabaceo" = "the 'You askin' bit"; this is the non-verbal way of asking and accepting / refusing a dance. The "cabaceo" is one of the "Codigos" - and obviously, happens before the dance starts
I'm not sure if there's a specific name for the "thank you" convention...?
Maybe "faux pas"? That was mentioned by a poster on the other forum link. That's a French word though.
Astro wrote:Maybe "faux pas"? That was mentioned by a poster on the other forum link. That's a French word though.
David Bailey wrote:Not sure what you're asking here?
"Codigos" = "Codes"; it's the generic name for the various cultural conventions of the dance.
"Cabaceo" = "the 'You askin' bit"; this is the non-verbal way of asking and accepting / refusing a dance. The "cabaceo" is one of the "Codigos" - and obviously, happens before the dance starts
I'm not sure if there's a specific name for the "thank you" convention...?
You may be right - I've not come across this in class (we had an Etiquette class once at the Crypt! It was enlightening!)
There are many ways to say "thankyou" - it just so happens that I generally get pecked on the cheeks. However, I've "heard" that it can also be used as a "code" to dance with someone else or stop dancing with current partner i.e. say Thank you instaed of "Its been lovely, however, I'd like dance with someone else now".
The thing is, when it happens, one never knows whether you are being sincere I prefer the peck on the cheeks ..... but again depends how the dance went and whether a 'connection' was present.
TA Guy wrote:Far be it for me to critcise a dance which is basically a version of pole dancing where each dancer takes turns in being the pole (just kidding DB )
Actually, that's not a totally silly description. But the shoes are nicer in Tango.
TA Guy wrote: but this seems to me to be a perfect example of what can go wrong when you structure a dance too much. Too many rules, too many conventions. Asking someone to dance is not that difficult. Honest.
FWIW, I agree - and I think Tango in the UK should develop it's own, more informal, conventions. Cultural conventions that work in Argentina - or that worked in 19th-century Argentina - may not transfer well to 21st-Century London.
And the UK scene is IMO too much in awe of Everything That Comes From Argentina - when frankly some of it is just rubbish.
Jivetango Godfather "if your arguments are poorly constructed, they are often misinterperetated" - CJ
TA Guy wrote: ....Too many rules, too many conventions..
Nobody "owns" Tango so there are no rules, but in order for every one to get on, no matter what part of the world they come from, there is an etiquette
There is no rule to say you cannot dance clockwise round the room, but as every one else is going anti clockwise, its is better to follow convention
If you visit Thailand you can shake hands, but it is polite to wai
Tango etiquette is different from MJ ( although having a shower and putting on a clean shirt is greatly appreciated in both cultures) You are the visitor . when in Rome
The customer is allways right , but sometimes they are in the wrong place
David Bailey wrote:
And the UK scene is IMO too much in awe of Everything That Comes From Argentina - when frankly some of it is just rubbish.
Yes and slowly thing are changing. In Bristol we are lucky, one class teaches a rigid Argentinean etiquette, the other is more relaxed and women definitely ask men to dance, but both both go anti claockwise round the room
The customer is allways right , but sometimes they are in the wrong place
philsmove wrote:Yes and slowly thing are changing. In Bristol we are lucky, one class teaches a rigid Argentinean etiquette, the other is more relaxed and women definitely ask men to dance, but both both go anti claockwise round the room
Well, I wouldn't call the line-of-dance thing a convention, it's more an intrinsic part of the dance*. It's a progressive dance - that's one of the defining characteristics of the dance. Although of course there are conventions about this - but they're mainly floorcraft and suchlike. "Don't step back", that sort of thing.
And given the hold, anti-clockwise progression is the only sensible choice really.
But yes, the "women don't ask" is unfortunately one of the codigos.
Trouble wrote:OMG - you mean women arn't supposed to ask men to dance in Tango.
Hey gorgeous girl looking as good as you do I don't think that would be a problem for you ... REALLY glad to hear you and Scarface are getting into the tango, now 20th December can't come quick enough
if you love the life you live then you'll get a lot more done
rubyred wrote:Hey gorgeous girl looking as good as you do I don't think that would be a problem for you ... REALLY glad to hear you and Scarface are getting into the tango, now 20th December can't come quick enough
NO NO NO Ruby, dont get too excited. All we have managed to do is say,, mmmmmm we think we want to look into this more. Ive had five mins walk with David Bailey and a little dance where i did some vague ochoos or whatever you call em. Scarface is still learning some mambo moves etc with the help of lory, ant and DB..... LOL... we are struggling to find some classes before xmas so looks like new year before we can get really stuck in.
Oh and thanks for the gorgeous comment.. you can post more of them comments if ya like xxxx
To answer your question - women don't typically ask men to dance in Tango, no. But then they don't in salsa either. In fact, the MJ scene is exceptional that way.
Jivetango Godfather "if your arguments are poorly constructed, they are often misinterperetated" - CJ
FWIW, I agree - and I think Tango in the UK should develop it's own, more informal, conventions. Cultural conventions that work in Argentina - or that worked in 19th-century Argentina - may not transfer well to 21st-Century London.
And the UK scene is IMO too much in awe of Everything That Comes From Argentina - when frankly some of it is just rubbish.
I totally agree with all of this.
Philsmove wrote:Tango etiquette is different from MJ ( although having a shower and putting on a clean shirt is greatly appreciated in both cultures) You are the visitor . when in Rome
It is indeed greatly appreciated. However, it has struck me that there may be a slightly more relaxed attitude towards personal hygiene in tango, perhaps because it's harder to work up a sweat. Although I don't think I've ever encountered rancid stinkers to compete with the worst MJ has to offer, it's just that tangueros don't seem to get uptight about it.
Garlic-eating seems to be positively encouraged in some tango quarters!
Dim ond calon lân all ganu
Canu'r dydd a chanu'r nos.
Let me know when you are going, I will arrange a film crew, Carry On Crew move over.
David Bailey wrote:[Harry Hill]FIGHT![/Harry Hill]
To answer your question - women don't typically ask men to dance in Tango, no. But then they don't in salsa either. In fact, the MJ scene is exceptional that way.
I mean wots that all about. Have we gone back to the victorian days or something. I think i might have to get stuck in and bring the Tango scene into the modern world. For goodness sakes..
Trouble wrote:I mean wots that all about. Have we gone back to the victorian days or something.
Did you miss this bit:
David Bailey wrote:I think Tango in the UK should develop it's own, more informal, conventions. Cultural conventions that work in Argentina - or that worked in 19th-century Argentina - may not transfer well to 21st-Century London.
In other words, I agree, it's not good.
Jivetango Godfather "if your arguments are poorly constructed, they are often misinterperetated" - CJ
Trouble wrote:I mean wots that all about. Have we gone back to the victorian days or something. I think i might have to get stuck in and bring the Tango scene into the modern world. For goodness sakes..
Trouble, this thread started from the female/male discrimination thread as it is probabally the best example of female discrimination in dancing.
At many venues the tradition thing is a big deal, some good and some bad. Scratchy music, ladies waiting to be asked, men are supposed to behave like gentlemen, three dances at a time etc.
However things are changing with the Neuvo Tango scene and more and more western women taking it up and not prepared to accept some of the [EMAIL="cr@p"]cr@p[/EMAIL].
The best venue for the new scene is downstairs at Negracha on a Friday (the next LGTN there is on5/12) but even there some of the old traditions persist.
When Ruby and I went to Morzine they relaxed the rule on women asking because the guy that ran the festival got so much grief from the women there. So pressure for change does work.
philsmove wrote:Nobody "owns" Tango so there are no rules, but in order for every one to get on, no matter what part of the world they come from, there is an etiquette
You mean 'rules of etiquette' surely ?
David Bailey wrote:Actually, that's not a totally silly description. But the shoes are nicer in Tango.
I know. I made it a joke so as to attempt not to insult anyone too much AT is next on my list after WCS, but I am fundmentally built not to learn two dances at once, so it has to wait for a decade or two... Nonetheless, doesn't stop me watching and admiring the excellent clips. And sometimes, that is what I see
I prefer the peck on the cheeks ..... but again depends how the dance went and whether a 'connection' was present.
!!
REALLY glad to hear you and Scarface are getting into the tango, now 20th December can't come quick enough 
