WCS - a newbie's perspective

Talk about anything dance related ...

Anything to do with dancing, classes, etc...
Post Reply
User avatar
Caro
Senior Member
Posts: 2781
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:39 pm

Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

Report a concern about this post

Post by Caro »

so let me summarise...
Steven666 wrote:More scared too... :(
Steven666 wrote:
It really a case of select rude people ruining it for others.

I just don't like refusals at all. I've said that before.

If I had a choice between the following:

- 30 brilliant dances and 1 refusal (however polite) in a night,
or
- just 1 average dance all night, sitting the rest out.

I would DEFINITELY pick the latter.

so, it seems to me like:
- you're too scared/shy/lack the confidence to ask people to dance
- when do you muster the courage to ask, if the person refuses you for almost whatever reason, you're made feeling inadequate and the night is ruined for you.

Given that you will invariability run the risk of being turned down for whatever (valid) reason at almost any venue (whatever the dance style), it begs the question: why on earth do you put yourself through such misery ? :what:

Seriously, where's the enjoyment ? What good does this bring you ? Either you decide that dancing's all worth the trouble and get over your issues with refusals and asking for dances (if you look at it objectively, it's not that bad, happens to everyone, you also have some good nights, etc) , or you decide to go do something that makes you happy like go to the cinema or whatever.

Steven666 wrote:
But what has made me think that way...?
well, my guess is you have a fair idea of what the answer to that question might be, but you might want to talk to someone who can help you with overcoming that... :flower:
.
Little Miss Whipme :innocent:
frodo
Senior Member
Posts: 1156
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 11:46 pm

Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

Report a concern about this post

Post by frodo »

ant wrote:I would be interested to know what you did mean with this part of the post.
Reasonable question, so I'll expand on that

To teach something it is good to know the subject matter to a decently greater depth than what is being taught.

It isn't necessary to be world champion or to have a degree in the subject or even be able to walk, in order to point out something simple.
Rocky
Senior Member
Posts: 1895
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:07 pm

Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

Report a concern about this post

Post by Rocky »

frodo wrote:Reasonable question, so I'll expand on that

To teach something it is good to know the subject matter to a decently greater depth than what is being taught.

It isn't necessary to be world champion or to have a degree in the subject or even be able to walk, in order to point out something simple.

I'm sorry, is it just me or does anyone ever have the foggiest idea of what Fro-doh is talking about??
User avatar
Steven666
Senior Member
Posts: 1681
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:13 pm

Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

Report a concern about this post

Post by Steven666 »

Rocky wrote:I'm sorry, is it just me or does anyone ever have the foggiest idea of what Fro-doh is talking about??

I do!! Whether it's correct is a matter of opinion.
SO I HERD U LIEK MUDKIPZ
User avatar
fletch
Senior Member
Posts: 9298
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2005 1:47 pm

Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

Report a concern about this post

Post by fletch »

robd wrote:Well, I would have suggested S666 as I was certain he neg-repped me earlier but I am starting to reconsider since 'Nice to see that you are still a dick!' doesn't appear to contain a single misspelling and therefore is extremely unlikely to originate from him.
I see things havn't changed in my apsence :rolleyes:
Steven666 wrote:Your case lacks substance if you can only resort to mocking my poor English skills!
:yeah:
Steven666 wrote:So in order for everone to get dances and avoid refusals, you must join cliques. Locations of which have been handily pointed out...

Is that right?

wraped around each other dosn't help, best hang on a bit till the 'honeymoon' period is over, and you might get a few more. :na:

Lee Bartholomew wrote:


It's a part of it. I know of many people who are considered great dancers, not just in WCS but Jive as well, because they have so much confidance and 'personallity' that the fact they have no technique gets overlooked

.
aint that the truth :whistle:
jive-vee wrote:

I'm trying to be friendly here but you are free to intepret this as you wish...I did see you at Swingmasters a few times but I only saw you dance with one particular girl and you were always sat with her (just the two of you, not as part of a group).

and friendlier to some dancers than to others but the same applies in MJ and in real life.
he's missing me and our group....arnt you S666? be carfull how you answer. :D
Gerry wrote:Steven
To get better you need to dance with more girls which usually means you need to go ask them. When I have seen you with your girlfriend it looks like you don't want to dance with anyone else. Unfortunately this is a perception that can be given off especially when I have only seen you guys dancing with each other.
flip me am I getting soft in my old age, i'm totaly agreeing with Gerry on this one, keep asking. :flower:
We never know where life will take us or why, its sometime only when we look back we understand, my way isn't the right way its just my way, look past the cover take time to read a chapter, you might be surprised with my book of life. Been human that is my crime
User avatar
Andy McGregor
Senior Member
Posts: 9276
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 12:00 pm

Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

Report a concern about this post

Post by Andy McGregor »

Rocky wrote:I'm sorry, is it just me or does anyone ever have the foggiest idea of what Fro-doh is talking about??
Rather than take this thread even further off-topic I've moved my answer here.
“Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius-and a lot of courage-to move in the opposite direction.” Albert Einstein
User avatar
Dreadful Scathe
Senior Member
Posts: 12530
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2002 12:00 pm
Contact:

Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

Report a concern about this post

Post by Dreadful Scathe »

Rocky wrote:I'm sorry, is it just me or does anyone ever have the foggiest idea of what Fro-doh is talking about??
In the story of "The Emperors new clothes" it took a child to point out the obvious, the Emperor was naked.
"defiantly a pork soared" -fletch DS is talking as much sense as most people I've heard - batnurse
"This is a discussion forum, not some sort of hippy poetry-reading commune" - TAFKADJ
User avatar
Andy McGregor
Senior Member
Posts: 9276
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 12:00 pm

Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

Report a concern about this post

Post by Andy McGregor »

Dreadful Scathe wrote:In the story of "The Emperors new clothes" it took a child to point out the obvious, the Emperor was naked.
I have answered this post here so that I don't divert this thread.
“Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius-and a lot of courage-to move in the opposite direction.” Albert Einstein
User avatar
Gerry
Senior Member
Posts: 681
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:35 pm

Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

Report a concern about this post

Post by Gerry »

This thread seems to have gone rather stale.

To the WCS Newbies, how are you getting along, do you still find that we are an unfriendly bunch.

Have you found that we were never unfriendly in the first place.

Common we would love to hear the gossip
glads
Junior Member
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2003 12:19 pm

Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

Report a concern about this post

Post by glads »

Gerry wrote:This thread seems to have gone rather stale.

To the WCS Newbies, how are you getting along, do you still find that we are an unfriendly bunch.

Have you found that we were never unfriendly in the first place.

Common we would love to hear the gossip
HMM, I haven't had much chance to dance WCS freestyle lately, there is very little opportunity in the north west outside of one regular weekly class, but at least I have got to know the guys there so I do get asked to dance now. I was hoping to go to Euromasters in Liverpool in a couple of weeks but we're having a (MJ) freestyle at our venue that weekend so can't go.
I must be improving though - at the 'Winter Warmer' Munich weekend I offered my services as demo to the WCS teacher who didn't have a partner and think I did ok (got a big hug and thanks off him at the end of the class anyway)
I saw you briefly at Feb Southport Gerry but didn't get the chance to ask you for a dance - there was very little opportunity for WCS freestyle there anyway.
t0mt0m
Junior Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:09 pm

Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

Report a concern about this post

Post by t0mt0m »

Gerry wrote:This thread seems to have gone rather stale.

To the WCS Newbies, how are you getting along, do you still find that we are an unfriendly bunch.

Have you found that we were never unfriendly in the first place.

Common we would love to hear the gossip
As a WCS newbie - I'd say you're a friendly bunch. It really does pay for the beginner to go in with a positive attitude and be social, even though they're probably really nervous, and they're mind is trying to take everything in.
That little bit of effort makes such a difference to how you're seen next time you go, and makes things much easier - 1st impressions. Seen it first hand the difference between the two approaches.

Whilst not unfriendly - a huge gap in ability can be daunting - WCS isn't immune from leads wondering how to make an adequate fun dance and not go rabbit-headlight, and I'd imagine women wondering if they're doing it right (and praying the lead isn't going to completely whisk her out of her comfort zone into too complex stuff that she won't enjoy).

I guess there are a whole range of experiences a beginner can have with WCS. (For me, i'm still trying to work out what the fundamentals are - seeing a freestyle or two my head hurts as the social versions of a dance don't match up to much taught in class at all! (timing, steps, movement, syncopation, hijacking, freestyling etc).
NZ Monkey
Senior Member
Posts: 1109
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:15 am

Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

Report a concern about this post

Post by NZ Monkey »

t0mt0m wrote:As a WCS newbie - I'd say you're a friendly bunch. It really does pay for the beginner to go in with a positive attitude and be social, even though they're probably really nervous, and they're mind is trying to take everything in.
That little bit of effort makes such a difference to how you're seen next time you go, and makes things much easier - 1st impressions. Seen it first hand the difference between the two approaches.

Whilst not unfriendly - a huge gap in ability can be daunting - WCS isn't immune from leads wondering how to make an adequate fun dance and not go rabbit-headlight, and I'd imagine women wondering if they're doing it right (and praying the lead isn't going to completely whisk her out of her comfort zone into too complex stuff that she won't enjoy).
QFT*. :yeah:

My experience as a beginner was fantastic and I think in part that was because I started on my own, knowing nobody. I had to put myself out there just to have somebody to talk too, let alone dance with.

You might choose to see that as a negative, but instead I found that I was getting asked to dance, by people a whole lot better than I, well before I felt confident enough to get up on the dance floor myself**. From reading the forum it seems that most people seem to have the opposite problem when they start.

I guess there are a whole range of experiences a beginner can have with WCS. (For me, i'm still trying to work out what the fundamentals are - seeing a freestyle or two my head hurts as the social versions of a dance don't match up to much taught in class at all! (timing, steps, movement, syncopation, hijacking, freestyling etc).
In my experience there is usually two reasons why you see so much that is different to what you're taught in beginners classes on the social floor.
  • There are modifications to the basic techniques that can be used to give a different look to the dance. Examples include syncopated footwork variations, rock-and-go's and working off the slot.
  • Most people can't take on a lot of technique in one hit, or else don't really listen or try to apply it. Other people have thourougly ingraned habits from other dances that they have a hard time dropping in WCS. Examples include awkward or uncontrolled shuffling, cutting off the anchour step, and ignoring the slot.
Which of the above two it's likely to be will depend very much on who you're watching :na:

*Quoted For Truth to those less geeky than myself.

**Special props to Lory and Manal especially for being amazingly supportive of me during those early days. You two helped my confidence much more than you probably realise :respect:
User avatar
David Bailey
Senior Member
Posts: 17001
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:00 pm

Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

Report a concern about this post

Post by David Bailey »

So, I did my First Ever WCS Class last night :grin:

It's a new night, it's in the Moonglow at Watford, and it's being run by Paul Alex (an experienced Ballroom and WCS dancer who also owns the studio) and Carol Clarke (an experienced Ceroc teacher who also teaches other styles)

(Disclaimer: I and Carol occasionally teach AT together. But did I get a discounted entry? Pah, did I hell... :tears: so, at least, you know this is a "pure punter" review.)

The evening was billed as a mix of AT and WCS - in the event it proved far more WCS than AT, but that was fine with me. (I'll slip in the AT review bit at the end.)

The class started at 8:30pm, and consisted mainly of learning two patterns, the Sugar Push and the Whip. Paul clearly taught "ballroom-stylee", drilling the patterns into us again and again. Normally I'd not like this approach, but I did find this kind of worked in this context; I certainly needed the comfort blanket of muscle memory for it.

We spent about 45 minutes on the 6-count Sugar Push, then about 20 minutes on the 8-count Whip - I think trying to teach the Whip was a bit ambitious really, but I can see why they wanted to get both patterns introduced. My impression is that the "by-the-numbers" teaching style might get a bit limiting for me in the long run - but that this structure is precisely what I need at the start.

They played a fantastic selection of music during the class - I can certainly see the attraction of the music, it's lovely to dance to.

I also got a vague idea of why the dance can look nicer than MJ in some way - the elongation of the in-and-out movements does create a different look and feel.

I also see why the dance takes up a lot of room - we did tend to take up a lot of space on the dance floor, and I can see why it's difficult to have MJ and WCS dancers in the same room. WCS doesn't seem to be a dance that's easy to dance small.

My two main problems were:
1. My complete lack of anything vaguely resembling a lead for at least the first half of the class. Partially because of my brain trying to assimilate the pattern concept (I'm not good at remembering patterns at the best of times), but probably also partially because there was not a lot of tuition on that area in this class.
2. The "tap-then-step on the same foot" bit during both the Sugar Push and Whip movements. I'm now completely conditioned to the concept that if you take a step, you transfer weight onto that foot. So I did so, almost every time. Grrrr...

Considering the relative lack of marketing for this, there were a good number in attendance - about 30 in total I reckon. Certainly more than enough to generate a good atmosphere in the class. I'd say that most of the attendees were of a MJ background.

Overall, I really enjoyed the class - much more than I thought I would, in fact - and I think I may even go back there again next week. It's certainly good for me to get out of my comfort zone with dancing, and I did enjoy the occasional points where I started to get a feel for the dance.

Oh, I nearly forgot, the AT bit: Paul taught a Basic 8.... :whistle:
Jivetango Godfather
"if your arguments are poorly constructed, they are often misinterperetated" - CJ
User avatar
David Bailey
Senior Member
Posts: 17001
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:00 pm

Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

Report a concern about this post

Post by David Bailey »

P.S. I could see no sign of snootiness around. I'll keep looking for it of course :wink:
Jivetango Godfather
"if your arguments are poorly constructed, they are often misinterperetated" - CJ
User avatar
Lory
Senior Member
Posts: 9918
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2003 11:00 am
Contact:

Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

Report a concern about this post

Post by Lory »

Nice Review :cheers:

So, is this a completely independent class or is it affiliated to a known organisation?
MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE :)
"If you're going to do something tonight, that you know you'll be sorry for in the morning, plan a lie in." Lorraine :wink:
User avatar
Gerry
Senior Member
Posts: 681
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:35 pm

Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

Report a concern about this post

Post by Gerry »

David Bailey wrote:We spent about 45 minutes on the 6-count Sugar Push, then about 20 minutes on the 8-count Whip - I think trying to teach the Whip was a bit ambitious really, but I can see why they wanted to get both patterns introduced. My impression is that the "by-the-numbers" teaching style might get a bit limiting for me in the long run - but that this structure is precisely what I need at the start.

They played a fantastic selection of music during the class - I can certainly see the attraction of the music, it's lovely to dance to.


My two main problems were:
2. The "tap-then-step on the same foot" bit during both the Sugar Push and Whip movements. I'm now completely conditioned to the concept that if you take a step, you transfer weight onto that foot. So I did so, almost every time. Grrrr...

MMMMMMMMMMMMMM. I would expect the teacher to be teaching the Sugar Push and Whip basics rather than some sort of variation.

In their basic forms I would expect each step to be a full weight transer,

Sugar Push, Slow, Slow, Quick, Quick, Slow, Quick, Quick Slow

Glad to hear you have come over to the dark side :lol:
User avatar
David Bailey
Senior Member
Posts: 17001
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:00 pm

Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

Report a concern about this post

Post by David Bailey »

Lory wrote:So, is this a completely independent class or is it affiliated to a known organisation?
Independent - Paul owns the studio and he wants to develop it as an ongoing thing for Thursday nights.

Personally, I think the AT stuff was a bit pointless (and that's me saying it :D ), I think it'd work better as a full WCS evening, but maybe with a 15-minute "fun taster" class in some other style; I think they're going to do salsa and chacha at some point.
Jivetango Godfather
"if your arguments are poorly constructed, they are often misinterperetated" - CJ
User avatar
David Bailey
Senior Member
Posts: 17001
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:00 pm

Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

Report a concern about this post

Post by David Bailey »

Gerry wrote:MMMMMMMMMMMMMM. I would expect the teacher to be teaching the Sugar Push and Whip basics rather than some sort of variation.

In their basic forms I would expect each step to be a full weight transer,

Sugar Push, Slow, Slow, Quick, Quick, Slow, Quick, Quick Slow
Yes, I did stumble (literally) across the chasse variation for the Whip, then started using it occasionally in the Sugar Push. Is that the "standard" form then?
Gerry wrote:Glad to hear you have come over to the dark side :lol:
Well, blimey, it's not like it's a real dance, is it? :wink:
Jivetango Godfather
"if your arguments are poorly constructed, they are often misinterperetated" - CJ
User avatar
Gerry
Senior Member
Posts: 681
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:35 pm

Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

Report a concern about this post

Post by Gerry »

Gerry wrote:MMMMMMMMMMMMMM. I would expect the teacher to be teaching the Sugar Push and Whip basics rather than some sort of variation.

In their basic forms I would expect each step to be a full weight transer,

Sugar Push, Slow, Slow, Quick, Quick, Slow, Quick, Quick Slow
David Bailey wrote:Yes, I did stumble (literally) across the chasse variation for the Whip, then started using it occasionally in the Sugar Push. Is that the "standard" form then?

I am not sure what you mean by a chasse step, but the basic version of the sugar push and whip would not have a tap step incorporated.
User avatar
David Bailey
Senior Member
Posts: 17001
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:00 pm

Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

Report a concern about this post

Post by David Bailey »

Gerry wrote:I am not sure what you mean by a chasse step, but the basic version of the sugar push and whip would not have a tap step incorporated.
It's a 1-2-3 skip-step, basically. Same sort of thing as at the end, which gives that SSQQSQQS rhythm you mentioned.
Jivetango Godfather
"if your arguments are poorly constructed, they are often misinterperetated" - CJ
Post Reply