WCS - a newbie's perspective

[robd]

Excellent, we can look forward to some observations on WCS informed by your own experience rather than that of others now eh DB?

In their basic forms I think the Sugar Push and Whip would have weight transfers on all steps. Certainly you'll see a lot of tapsteps replacing the 3&4 of a sugar on a social floor but rarely taught as so.

[Phil_dB]

Respect for stepping outside your comfort zone, - & great to hear you enjoyed it! The music was what attracted me to WCS too. It is possible to keep WCS small'ish, - you can do an awful lot of moves (certainly all your basics) in close hold, - and even in Open you can 'shorten' your arms

I hope you stick at it, - ie, get past the initial difficult learning curve which seems to see some people fall by the wayside. In time i'm sure you'll even be able to incorporate tango into your WCS, and I think some of your tango skill will transfer and help your WCS also

[David Bailey]

Respect for stepping outside your comfort zone, - & great to hear you enjoyed it! The music was what attracted me to WCS too. It is possible to keep WCS small'ish, - you can do an awful lot of moves (certainly all your basics) in close hold, - and even in Open you can 'shorten' your arms

If my arms were any shorter they'd be non-existent.

I hope you stick at it, - ie, get past the initial difficult learning curve which seems to see some people fall by the wayside.

Well, we'll see. I don't intend to spend vast amounts of time obsessing over it - I'm teaching three nights next week, for example, so it's not like I have a lot of spare time anyway - but it's nice to have a play with something new.

In time i'm sure you'll even be able to incorporate tango into your WCS, and I think some of your tango skill will transfer and help your WCS also

I think it's reasonable to say that depth of experience in dancing does transfer across, in a broad sense, to an extent at least.

But at the moment, based on my vast experience of one whole class, WCS reminds me more of (LA-style) salsa than AT - the footwork, the musical phrasing, the visual aspect, and so on.

Another problem I found was that I couldn't easily immediately recover - because it seemed more phrase-based than step-based, I occasionally found myself having to wait for the start of the next phrase to recover; again, from my recollection, I had to do the same in salsa when I was learning that.

As I said, the Watford organisers are thinking of doing salsa and chacha in a few weeks - I suspect those may be more in tune with WCS than AT is.

[Vidar]

So, I did my First Ever WCS Class last night

They played a fantastic selection of music during the class - I can certainly see the attraction of the music, it's lovely to dance to.

I've done about six months of ceroc/modern jive and four classes of WCS, and I agree, there seems to be more of a varied selection of music at WCS. (WCS DJs also don't seem to plaster a thudding beat over the top of every single song like some ceroc DJs I've known seem to, but that may just be the venues I attend.)

But I'm not entirely sure what makes a "good WCS track," which I've heard some people here talk about. Can anyone give an example of a couple of tracks that would sound similar to a layman, but where an experienced dancer would say that one is clearly a WCS track and the other isn't?

Cheers

[NZ Monkey]

2. The "tap-then-step on the same foot" bit during both the Sugar Push and Whip movements. I'm now completely conditioned to the concept that if you take a step, you transfer weight onto that foot. So I did so, almost every time. Grrrr...

That might be the ballroom variation of the dance (which makes my eyes bleed every time I see it :na or perhaps they're trying to remove as many triple steps as possible for the first few classes to make it easier. Either way, it ain't the normal basic for a sugar push or whip.

But hey, as Gerry said welcome to the darkside! We have cookies and hope you enjoy your stay

[jim]

But at the moment, based on my vast experience of one whole class, WCS reminds me more of (LA-style) salsa than AT - the footwork, the musical phrasing, the visual aspect, and so on.

I also think that wcs and crossbody salsa have a lot in commen.

Actually I think if you got the right track, you could probably get three couples dancing salsa, jive and wcs to the same track at the same time. That would be intersting experiment to watch.

[David Bailey]

That might be the ballroom variation of the dance (which makes my eyes bleed every time I see it :na or perhaps they're trying to remove as many triple steps as possible for the first few classes to make it easier.

Actually, personally I find a triple step easier than that hybrid tap-then-step thing. And it seems more logical to have two triple-steps than one.

We shall see what the next class brings

[Steven666]

Certainly you'll see a lot of tapsteps replacing the 3&4 of a sugar on a social floor but rarely taught as so.

And they always look crap...must watch in anticipation when the All Stars catergory dancers do it in the US open EVERY TIME!! [/sarcasm hopefully noted]

Now not to do it myself...

[Steven666]

That might be the ballroom variation of the dance

You're mistaken. It's just pure laziness.

[NZ Monkey]

You're mistaken. It's just pure laziness.

Nah - pure laziness is only quoting half a sentence when the other half gives it context

DB did mention he was a ballroom teacher, and what he's describing definitely isn't a method I've seen anyone teach as a basic in mainstream WCS so it isn't outside the realms of possibility.

Besides, we have no way of knowing whether that is the case or if there's a method to the madness. Personally, since...

We spent about 45 minutes on the 6-count Sugar Push, then about 20 minutes on the 8-count Whip

....I'm inclined to think that laziness isn't the motivator for that change.

[David Bailey]

Personally, since.......I'm inclined to think that laziness isn't the motivator for that change.

No, Paul was quite thorough; very much the "muscle memory" school of teaching based on that one class.

Which, to be honest, I think works for me at the moment. Yes, of course I want to learn the principles, the feel, the technique and so on. But my sense at the moment is that none of that matters if I can't master some of the basic footwork and rhythm. Which, again, is very much like learning salsa at the start.

It's possible that trying to learn WCS without having some of the basic patterns is like trying to learn AT without getting the posture right.

[frodo]

Yes, I did stumble (literally) across the chasse variation for the Whip, then started using it occasionally in the Sugar Push. Is that the "standard" form then?

Whether it is standard depends what you've been taught.

What I've learnt is of course standard - what others learn is a variation.

They played a fantastic selection of music during the class - I can certainly see the attraction of the music, it's lovely to dance to.

The music and the sugar/whip basics taught may be related.

WCS reached the UK in different ways.

The strand that took greatest hold in the UK, brought with it particular music preferences. Other strands may have different music preferences.

You're mistaken. It's just pure laziness.

I don't know if there is such a thing as ballroom style, but I think this way of teaching the basic probably reached the UK via ballroom teachers.

I don't think a tap step basic would appeal to modern jivers. You'd want to keep it simple. A mix of triple steps and taps steps is less simple.

However when teaching an additional dance to those previously taught ballroom there would be less need to constrain the footwork teaching.

[meghann]

I don't think a tap step basic would appeal to modern jivers. You'd want to keep it simple. A mix of triple steps and taps steps is less simple.

Not all of us like MJ just because it's simple!

[David Bailey]

As a newbie, I'm allowed to ask silly questions, so I will ask, does it really matter whether there's a tap or a chasse?

[frodo]

Not all of us like MJ just because it's simple!

We are talking about the leaders here .

Quite possibly the followers are not doing a tap step.

does it really matter whether there's a tap or a chasse?

At a basic level it clearly works whichever way you do it. If you're taught several different basic steps by different teachers you realise you can just do the one you like the best, and save some learning / unlearning.

In a way the footwork doesn't matter much anyway.

At a higher level there clearly are differences in body mechanics. In another situation it can feel considerably different it the lady does taps steps in place of triples.

[Gerry]

As a newbie, I'm allowed to ask silly questions, so I will ask, does it really matter whether there's a tap or a chasse?

As basic, it makes a huge difference, I think you need to master your basics until they become second nature.

Then your free to be creative by removing triple steps or adding other syncopations.

A lot of teachers get very angry when they ask their students to go through their basics and they use a variation as a basic.

[David Bailey]

As basic, it makes a huge difference,

Stupid question 2: why?

[Gerry]

But I'm not entirely sure what makes a "good WCS track," which I've heard some people here talk about. Can anyone give an example of a couple of tracks that would sound similar to a layman, but where an experienced dancer would say that one is clearly a WCS track and the other isn't?

Cheers

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS WCS MUSIC sorry about shouting.

The beauty of dancing WCS music is the variety of music that can be used.

Here are some examples which I believe you can happily jive to as well.

Low Down Dirty Shame Zhané

Shake That Ass Eminem feat. Nate Dogg

Dynamite Taio Cruz

Rollacoasta Robin Thicke feat Estelle

[Gerry]

Stupid question 2: why?

The dance is a language, you need to learn to talk before you can swear is the anology that a friend has used

[NZ Monkey]

As a newbie, I'm allowed to ask silly questions, so I will ask, does it really matter whether there's a tap or a chasse?

If you're already good, not really.

Speaking from the point of view of the leader, even if you're not it doesn't make a lot of difference in the sugar push because your first triple is practically on the spot. In the whip though it's a much more clear a lead if you're virtually square across the slot just before touching down on the four. It's even better if you get the movement smoothly.

Basically, it's a lot easier to get your body where it needs to be in three steps instead of one. Having that rhythm in muscle memory will help with other variations where you need to move later too.

My 2 cents.