Ceroc Scotland Forum

This workshop looks into the various techniques that can be worked into your dancing to add some passion and sensual movements.

I have had the pleasure of several very sensual dancers with several very sensual ladies. I'm positive they know more about this than I do: If there are any omissions or points of clarity that need addressing, please let me know.

Aims: This workshop is aimed at giving the followers some ideas about how to introduce “sexiness” into a dance, and giving the leads a few ways to invite the follower to misbehave.

Content:

• Introduction
  • Chemistry
  • Music
  • Comfort
  • Creeps
• Posing
  • What is a pose?
  • How to pose?
  • Tips on posing
  • Looks
  • Eye contact
  • Punctuation
  • Appraisal
• Caresses
  • Follower
  • o Lead
  • o Moving
• · Getting Close
• · Summary

Conclusion: By the end of this workshop, you should be able to turn it on and look steamy on the dance floor; followers will be able to tease the leads and leads will be able to entice the followers.

Prior Knowledge: This document assumes you already know how to lead and follow basic moves – the advice and practices within are wholly stylistic. While leading any of the exercises contained within, the follower will use the lead as more of an invitation than a direction; therefore the lead must be light and the leader willing for it to be ‘broken’ by the lady’s improvisation.

Most of the stylings within this rely on the follower hi-jacking the dance and improvising over the top of the lead’s signals – this can be disconcerting for the lead. Followers must also remember to relinquish control again when asked by the lead.

{to add to my syg:
As a devil I've known sins beyond all measure;
but holding you close gives the ultimate pleasure. }

h

This thread has real potential ;-)

Excellent post!

phaedrus wrote:Excellent post!

Which? Whitebeard or Gadgets

I have had a few sensual dances with some very sensual women, and must admit it normally starts off with the woman stopping me dead in my tracks halfway through a move and doing some very posy stuff - loved every minute of it

great post Gadget! Can I just ask you to clarify a small point? You say that the follower can hijack a move. What exactly does this mean? I THINK I know what it means but I'm not sure.

The Man sets up the moves, gives the signals to their partners and tell them what to do.. I take it hijacking is when the women take over leading? it's justyour line where you state

"Followers must also remember to relinquish control again when asked by the lead"

that seems to imply they dictate which moves to make?

or am I picking things up wrong?

I'll let Freya show you on Tuesday

Or ask Lorna: she held a workshop on it recently


...
It's when the follower stops following your lead and does something completley un-led or trys to lead you for a bit. During this time, the lead has to be ready to pick up the threads of the dance when the follower has 'finished'.

look at these threads for more stuff:
Ladies' sabotage advice
Sabotage moves

Beowulf1970 wrote:
..... that seems to imply they dictate which moves to make?

or am I picking things up wrong?

Oh dear. Gadget is not going to like that. The lead invites or suggests, maybe, if as bad as me, implores.

[Oh 'eck, I'll have ESG accusing me of false modesty again ]

On "blues", I'm surprised to hear you say that "what we now know as Blues has been developed from an MJ base", and similar comments. I'm skeptical of this - it doesn't seem very likely. Blues generally raises my suspicions, though - a lot of different stuff gets taught under that banner, and few teachers seem able to describe the dance in any more detail than "what people do to blues music".

It was funny to read a workshop written from a heteronormative (word of the day) perspective in gender-neutral terms. Nothing wrong with it, but it made me chuckle. What puzzles me is this: what made you decide to write such a female-centric (or even follower-centric) piece? For a male lead, that seems like quite a challenge.

MartinHarper wrote:What puzzles me is this: what made you decide to write such a female-centric (or even follower-centric) piece? For a male lead, that seems like quite a challenge.

Without agreeing or disagreeing with your assertion that this material is female-centric, I find it interesting that all the posts on this thread are from men.

Gadget wrote:I'll let Freya show you on Tuesday

Erm Always unintentional I'm afraid! Obviously just good at covering my mistakes!

MartinHarper wrote:On "blues", I'm surprised to hear you say that "what we now know as Blues has been developed from an MJ base", and similar comments. I'm skeptical of this - it doesn't seem very likely.

I'm going by threads here about "what is blues" and some informative posts by Nigel (Anderson?), DavidB and a few others. It developed basically because people wanted to dance UCP without being sleasy/crude. Initially danced to blues music because the mood and tempo fitted it.

Blues generally raises my suspicions, though - a lot of different stuff gets taught under that banner, and few teachers seem able to describe the dance in any more detail than "what people do to blues music".

Hold that thought. Give me a week or two (+ proof reading) and I'll have another document "Blues and Moves" giving what I consider blues and how to take moves and modify them for this style of dancing. (...with some of the better moves I have 'discovered')

It was funny to read a workshop written from a heteronormative (word of the day) perspective in gender-neutral terms. Nothing wrong with it, but it made me chuckle. What puzzles me is this: what made you decide to write such a female-centric (or even follower-centric) piece? For a male lead, that seems like quite a challenge.

I try to write all things now genderless for two main reasons: I see so many females dancing as leads (and doing better than a lot of men ) and a lot of good male dancers are experimenting with the concept of following (and not doing as well as most ladies ).

Once you get into the hang of it, it's not that difficult - I find that loosing the "he/she" is the hardest.

As to why I wrote it]I[/b] found sensual and how i could invite {/encourage } the follower to do more of this stuff.

All feedback greatfully recieved



{ I've just noticed an e-mail burried with some feedback from someone I asked to proof-read ... there may be a revision 2 soon }

Beowulf1970 wrote:great post Gadget! Can I just ask you to clarify a small point? You say that the follower can hijack a move. What exactly does this mean? I THINK I know what it means but I'm not sure.

The Man sets up the moves, gives the signals to their partners and tell them what to do.. I take it hijacking is when the women take over leading? it's justyour line where you state that seems to imply they dictate which moves to make?

or am I picking things up wrong?

Hiya! I did Lorna's workshop at BFG and it was great. She was basically saying that whether the guy gives you a signal to take overor whether you hi-jack (ie take over when he's not expecting it) then when you've finished doing 'your thing' you must hand back the lead to say thankyou I'm done. Do this by finishing the move by leading ito the return or whatever and the change of tension in in your arm etc or by leading the step back at the end of the move as you again put back the tension in your arm etc. That's how I understood it anyhoo, I never really considered that before.

Good post gadget, going to read in more detail when not at work!

Beowulf1970 wrote: The Man sets up the moves, gives the signals to their partners and tell them what to do.. I take it hijacking is when the women take over leading? it's justyour line where you state that seems to imply they dictate which moves to make?

or am I picking things up wrong?

I understand hijacking as when the follower deliberately does something different to what the leader expected. This is not the same as actually taking over the lead. I read somewhere that following is giving an "appropriate" response to a lead, which may not be the intended response.

One move occasionally taught is a First Move variation -- the follower is turned out to the side as usual. As the leader tries to turn her in, she turns quickly and ducks under his right arm, using it for support. It is a hijack, as it is not led, and I don't think it can be led.

Beginnners in their first couple of weeks might do this, and advanced dancers might do this, but otherwise it doesn't seem to happen. Even when that has been taught in class, none of the girls do it in the freestyle after the class.

Although I find Gadget's work interesting, I do wonder about how far you can teach something like Blues 'online'. IMHO Blues, more than any other segment of MJ is about a 'feel' rather than moves. Its about letting the music take you and your partner, and about how you find techniques to allow you to interpret the different flavours in the music and meld better with your partner.

Having gone through the (painful) process of putting together a level 2 Blues workshop from scratch, I find it difficult to find teaching model to convey the points I'm trying to make. I really wish I had a formal music background like Nigel so I could teach musicality better. However, the real value of the workshop comes from showing how to move to the music then coaching the students into how to do it for themselves. Fair comment?

timbp wrote:I understand hijacking as when the follower deliberately does something different to what the leader expected. This is not the same as actually taking over the lead.

The thing is that while a lady is doing a hijack, she is leading herself. At some point she should hand back the lead to the guy.

Sometimes this can be just by stopping leading herself, but in more complex hijacks, it would be a more deliberate action. IIRC, the way that I've seen this taught is that if the hijack is done in an open position (e.g. if the girl wants to do a pose or wiggle or something) then afterwards she should draw in a little to the guy, drop the tension in her arm a bit and let the guy pick it up again. (When hijacking the girl should and (I guess?) will need to put more tension through her arm to stop the guy from leading, and signal that she's taking over.)

Perhaps a follower who actually knows something about hijacking (compared with me, how just likes to get hijacked occasionally) can tell us if I'm talking nonsense.

(Actually, now that I read back what I've written, I think I'm saying pretty much the same thing as Ickle Chick'n. )

Gus wrote:However, the real value of the workshop comes from showing how to move to the music then coaching the students into how to do it for themselves. Fair comment?

If blues is all about 'feeling', 'emotional content' and an 'inner connection', then how can showing someone externally be any better or worse than using words? Most of "blues" should be in your head/heart; can't words sometimes touch these places better than visuals?

If it's written, it can be reffered to at your own pace, looked on when-ever / where-ever, laughed at, scorned, praised or simply ignored if it's not for you. Not so easy to do these things at a 'live' workshop. (It also may feed interest for future 'live' workshops, where stuff may just 'click' easier)

I think an "online workshop" has value. (Or will have ) - If only one person gets something from it, even if it's just a spark of a few neurons, it will have value for me and be worth spending time on.


{...but this thread is about "sensual dancing", not "blues" }

Nice worksheet Gadget – Plain English and sensible for people needing direction in this area. I have to admit, I tended to think that sensuality in dancing is something individual and would have been difficult to teach (I have lots of images of people caressing their own bodies which just make me want to laugh out loud)

I tend to be someone who enjoys a sensual / flirty dance, but hates it when it goes over the line, and this is hard to define – you’ve made a good attempt at this here Gadget, and much of what you say makes sense to me as a follower (e.g. defining where a movement tends to be more or less invasive etc).

You asked for feedback – from my own personal POV I hate face caresses by strangers. I feel comfortable up close and personal, but generally speaking there is something too intimate about the face. If I’m still dancing with someone after 4 or 5 tracks it’s probably safe but otherwise. . . no

Gadget wrote:It is generally the case that the follower does the caressing]

I like the arm idea, but not the face. Doing this when in a dip is worse from my POV. You helpfully suggest that “if the caress is getting too intimate the follower can simply step back” (not possible in a dip). On a few occasions I have experienced leads dipping me and then holding me there for some time while they caress my face! I didn’t enjoy that.

Gadget wrote:If you re being caressed, you can either make a deliberate point of looking away or closing your eyes and tilting your head back to show appreciation.

That’s why they haven’t stopped when I’ve looked away! (It was my signal to stop, not to show appreciation)

It’s interesting isn’t it? I think blues-style dancing works best when two people talk the same dance / body language. Sometimes this is because they know eachother well or know similar people, and sometimes it’s a wonderful fluke. However, you both know that you understand eachother. I would suggest that if either the lead or the follow feels like they are having difficulty communicating, cool it.

Gadget wrote:When there is chemistry between two dancers, the world around them dissolves and nothing exists but each other and the music. They are lost in a world of movement and expression. They appear to move on intuition and are in tune with each other.

must admit I agree with you Rebecca! I hate having my face stroked or touched unless I really know them!!! It's a paranoia thing that comes from having surgery to your face!

Stroking the arm is fine but stay away from the face!!!

First of all, good on ya mate for putting so much effort into this. It is never easy to put something in words that can be easily shown. Consequently you expose yourself to your words being misunderstood/misinterpreted.

There are a couple of things that I noticed and at least partly disagree with but that could also mean that I am either not getting your message or am wrong.

Gadget wrote:Chemistry
When there is chemistry between two dancers, the world around them dissolves and nothing exists but each other and the music. They are lost in a world of movement and expression. They appear to move on intuition and are in tune with each other.
The rare times when you get this connection, you wish it would never end. But you don’t need to have this level of chemistry between you to introduce some sensuality – for the next three minutes, the person in front of you is your world.

This is what I call 'x-factor', it goes beyond just chemistry, call it the ultimum in chemistry, if you wish. Chemistry starts (in my opinion) when the two dancers start interacting at a 'playful' (if you were rude you could also say 'suggestive') level.

Gadget wrote:Eye contact...
Eye contact can be one of the most tantalising and sensual things within a dance. It gives the dancers a ‘connection’ noticeable from any spectator’s view point. Some people are uncomfortable with too much or prolonged eye contact – looking at the eyebrows or some random point about your partner’s eyes gives the same external appearance, without the intimacy.

This article should be placed at the beginning of the document because it is imperative to the whole thing. Without eye contact there is no chemistry and without chemistry sensuality looks false or, worse, ridiculous because out of place. As for discomfort during prolonged eye contact, yes, totally agree that some people do have problems with it but we are talking sensuality here. If prolonged eye contact makes a dancer feel uncomfortable then sensuality, in my opinion, is something they will never achieve: it will always look rehearsed.
I do like your examples for 'Punctuation' and 'Appraisal', although the latter one should be applied with care because it can also ruin a dance if perceived as sleazy. I found laughing cheekily afterwards kind of takes the gloom off the situation.

As for caresses, I'd add that the FINISH makes all the difference. No matter how you caress (within reason), it is always (?) how you finish the move that determines the overall perception.

And finally footwork, Tango is a good example. Ladies and gents, please make sure you are CLOSE to your partner when you do shoe shines etc. It really does not look or feel sensual if you are even a foot away.


Anyway, good work, Gadget!