Bare Minimum Moves.

[Beowulf]

Hey all.

Long time no visit. Was just looking over my collection of known moves. "Officially" I know 11 That is, 11 moves I have been taught and remember (even if I can't remember what they're all called). I have one or two "unofficially" learnt moves (picked up by watching the intermediate classes or watching others on the dance floor.

I was just wondering to dance Ceroc you don't need to know ALL the moves? What would be the bare minimum set of moves to comfortably dance with?

My "repertoir" currently consists of

manspin (had to be there.. that's my safety net!)
Arm Jive & AJ Push Spin
Yoyo & YY Push Spin
Basket
Octopus
Step across
Side to side Shoulder
Comb
The other move we did in the beginners section on Tuesday in Culter mills (not previously mentioned)

I was also watching the Arm jive spinny thing and baskety thing (body curl?) in the intermediate section. (I was the sad looking guy in the bright shirt sitting out for most of the night. Long story but I felt "squiffy")

Is there any other "must have" moves? should be able to dance ok with that lot!? (famous last words.. I'm monumentally bad at dancing!)

comments?

[TheTramp]

There's no such thing as a bare minimum.

If you talk to the ladies, they'll tell you that they'd prefer to dance with a guy who does 6 moves well, than 50 moves badly.

Your repertoire of moves will build up surprisingly quickly, the more classes that you do. It won't be long before your list will be 20, then 50, then 100 moves big. Soon you'll be forgetting more moves than you use commonly. Even the good ones...... until someone does one of them next to you on the dance floor!!

Steve

[DavidB]

In the US, some West Coast Swing teachers have a list of 22 'foundation' moves. The interesting thing is not the moves themselves, but the reasons why they are taught. After learning these moves, you should have a good enough grounding in how to do WCS to be able to do any move.

So what would be a similar set of moves in Modern Jive? The dance is a lot simpler, so the list is probably going to be shorter.

- You would have to have some at the beginning to get people used to the timing, such as Arm Jive.
- Then something to introduce leading & following, and turning - probably a yoyo.
- You might want to show moves that can be led with different hand holds (left to right, right to right, both hands, and both hands crossed) and ways of changing hands.
- You might also want to introduce some of the common positions, such as closed position, sway, basket, etc
- Then maybe turns to the left and right, and free spins to the left and the right
- And finally some walking steps, such as swivel walks.

I don't know the names of enough moves to illustrate each idea. But I'd be surprised if it took more than 20 moves to form a foundation for Modern Jive. I'd be surprised if Ceroc or Leroc didn't already have a list like this.

Anything after that is just icing on the cake.

David

[Gadget]

I don't think anyone knows ALL the moves and I don't think anyone can.
I agree with tramp that most lady's would rather be led six moves well than fifteen million badly, but never mind the ladies; I get bored trying to lead newbies on just the four moves they know from the class!

Two things that will make it seem less boring;

• First, develop a couple of variations on the same move - for example in an arm-jive, instead of just returning and letting go of the right hand, keep hold and continue the lady turning; you are now in another move. Or start as another 'jive' motion, but raise the left hand and turn the lady into a basket at your side.
  Only do the variations When you get 'stuck' in one of these moves, or begin to think "damn - I'm in another arm-jive!"
  Another example I use {more than I should } is 'duck' exit from an octopus; as you wrap yourself in, lift both arms and duck through the hole backwards, the lady then does a double handed turn to face.

• Second, try to do the same move a different way; example - on a man spin, take more time and remain rooted while leading the lady all the way round you. Or try to keep the lady rooted while you turn into her. You need to do these over more counts than a normal man spin.

BTW the move was a "Front Basket Body Roll" {well that's what I called it } - not recommended to attempt on any unsuspecting beginner. Or even a suspecting beginner
I can't remember the beginners moves except for the Step Accross and Arm Jive :sorry:

[Gus]

Originally posted by Beowulf1970
Is there any other "must have" moves? should be able to dance ok with that lot!? (

As Tramp says, dont worry .... moves will naturally attach themselevs to you the more you go dancing. Re LEARNING them ... thats never really worked for me. During my time as a Ceroc instuctor I was taught to teach the 450+ official moves ... I've probably learnt about another 100 or so moves from the various workshops I done and probably developed about 40+ myself for various workshops and lessons ....... and how many do I use on an average night ... probably no more than 25 to 30 ..... and if you asked my to remember them I could only probably remember about 20 or so! After a while you body remembers the moves ... and you can just get on with enjoying the dance ... don't ask me how it happens, just a question of dancefloor hours clocked up I guess.

[TheTramp]

Dang. Gus. You're going to have to stop doing that.

Agreeing with me.

It's bad for my heart!!

Steve

[Jon]

Dont worry about knowing lots of moves your repitore will build up very quickly.

You already have the basket and the comb I do these moves all the time as there are so many variations you can do just try to think not how you have been taught the move but what is the music saying to you and just go with it. In other words do what feels natural dont worry about perfecting moves too much but play with them, make them slower, take bits out, add bits in from other moves, it's all about cutting & pasting bits of moves together really which is why there are 500 or so ceroc moves. And a little tip if it all goes wrong just smile/laugh and the lady will think she messed up your move :sorry

[spindr]

Well, I think that one of the most important beginner "moves" in Modern Jive is a simple "bounce together and apart" --- it matches in with the general feel of the "away, together, away" feel of "basic" Modern Jive. More importantly it helps you get the feeling of tension and compression in the handholds well with your partner.

It also helps give you some more thinking time and it can help transition circling moves into linear moves, and it makes a useful way to rescue some situations and get back on track.

You can also dress it up as "pat-a-cake" variations, or start to turn it into John's move, or WCS/Lindy sugar-pushes, etc., etc.

I wouldn't recommend using it for a whole dance, but it often comes in handy once in a while.

Neil.

[Beowulf]

Some good replies above

(even got an email from gadget suggestiing I write a computer program to automatically generate dance routines from a list of moves.. If I could do that, I'd just wire it into my shoes and I'd never worry again! <g>)

Back on topic.

What I'm trying to get at is there must be some recommended number of moves containing a selection of LH , RH and transition moves to allow a good routine to be constructed.

My Main problem is I know (perhaps not very well) the list of moves above. I'm ok in the beginners section as I've memorise the "routine" parrot fashion. But when it comes to freestyle and I try and link in different moves I keep getting stuffed. My brain doesn't seem to process the moves fast enough, do I want ot go from a LH to another LH ? do I want to switch? Oops too late I've missed my chance. And because I'm thinking so much about the moves I'm going to do next, I mess up the moves I'm doing now, which makes me feel awkward and ungainly and my confidence flies out the dance hall faster than a fleeing golden snitch!

I cna't make up a routine before hand as I don't know what music I'll be dancing to! Unless I only dance to certain tracks? <g>

suggestions?

Thanks Pete

(off topic.. just noticed I've lost my avatar.. have to fix that for next post!)

[Lorna]

Originally posted by Beowulf1970

My Main problem is I know (perhaps not very well) the list of moves above. I'm ok in the beginners section as I've memorise the "routine" parrot fashion. But when it comes to freestyle and I try and link in different moves I keep getting stuffed. My brain doesn't seem to process the moves fast enough, do I want ot go from a LH to another LH ? do I want to switch? Oops too late I've missed my chance. And because I'm thinking so much about the moves I'm going to do next, I mess up the moves I'm doing now, which makes me feel awkward and ungainly and my confidence flies out the dance hall faster than a fleeing golden snitch!

suggestions?

Hello,

my suggestion to you would be that you attend my next beginners workshop. (28th Sept)

The morning is dedicated to learning about a third of all the beginner's moves, including basic lead and follow techniques. It is very different from the usual class situation, less couples for a start and you get to stop me at any time to ask questions.

The afternoon session is designed to help improve men's freestyling and to develop a better 'lead' for the men and 'follow' for the ladies. This is achieved through various exercises that we do.

It is well worth getting yourself booked onto the next workshop as it will address most of the problems that you have mentioned.

Still trying to work out who you are, maybe you can introduce yourself to me on Tuesday! And even have a dance if we haven't already.

Lotsa love Lorna x-x

[DavidB]

Originally posted by Beowulf1970
My Main problem is I know (perhaps not very well) the list of moves above. I'm ok in the beginners section as I've memorise the "routine" parrot fashion. But when it comes to freestyle and I try and link in different moves I keep getting stuffed. My brain doesn't seem to process the moves fast enough, do I want ot go from a LH to another LH ? do I want to switch? Oops too late I've missed my chance. And because I'm thinking so much about the moves I'm going to do next, I mess up the moves I'm doing now, which makes me feel awkward and ungainly and my confidence flies out the dance hall faster than a fleeing golden snitch!

17 years ago. I was in exactly the same position. I'd been going for classes for a couple of months. They were at Pineapple Studios, and there was no freestyle afterwards. I could do the intermediate class, but couldn't do freestyle.

Then I went to a dance at the Porchester Halls. I had a couple of dances, and was just doing the routine from the last class...
... and then everything just clicked. It didn't matter what move I'd just done, or what I wanted to do next. If I had the wrong hand, I'd just do something else (usually a return), and not worry about it. It remains one of the best dances I ever had.

[Gadget]

Originally posted by Lorna
Still trying to work out who you are...

He was on your last workshop; looks a bit like me. (or more accuratly I look a bit like him )

Originally posted by Beowulf1970
What I'm trying to get at is there must be some recommended number of moves containing a selection of LH , RH and transition moves to allow a good routine to be constructed.

Number of moves... hmmmm.... next time you're watching, count the number of different moves; I reacon that a single dance would contain about 20 moves, but about five or six would be repeated two or three times, so that's a core of say 6 moves which takes up about 15 of the moves in the song, which leaves about 5 "different" moves to be inserted.
So if you know six moves well enough that you can slip in/out of them, then you only need to concentrate on how to get into your five 'special' moves in the dance.

{Personally I use man-spin, octopus, step-across, basket and either first move, shoulder slide, yo-yo or cattapult (depending on partner/song) as my core moves, then flail about for the other five moves and see what happens. Usually works. }

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by Lorna
Still trying to work out who you are, maybe you can introduce yourself to me on Tuesday! And even have a dance if we haven't already.

I'm the shy guy who came to your beginners workshop last weekend .. the one who when asked why I was there replied "I'm only here to keep my girlfriend happy"

I found the last workshop very useful which is why I came back to the Tueday night classes after a long absence. But when in a dance situation during freestyle. I don't have time to plan a move in advance as we were doing in the workshop.. everythings spur of the moment and the only thing I can think of is Manspin , manspin, manspin.... ad Nauseum !

Will look forward to a dance next time... hope your toes are insured!

[Chicklet]

Originally posted by DavidB
17 years ago. I was in exactly the same position.

I knew you must have been dancing since you were about 1:D

[Jon]

Originally posted by Beowulf1970
the only thing I can think of is Manspin , manspin, manspin.... ad Nauseum !

How about the slow manspin. Very nice move and simple. Instead of turning to face the lady changing places instead let her walk round you for afew beats. Gives you some thinking time too.

Prehaps the beginner plus workshop is something to consider as it builds on the beginner moves

[Emma]

Originally posted by Beowulf1970
Manspin , manspin, manspin....

Hey, there's nothing wrong with the manspin..I've been dancing as a lead more and more recently and I find it incredibly useful...about every other move... (In strict rotation with the catapault, the arm jive and the first move, usually) Every now and again I have a moment of *extreme* inspiration and put in a step-across .

I had loads of trouble at first freestyling (er, reading the above maybe I still do...) and found that going out with my girlfriend dancers and drinking rather too much was a definite confidence-boosting bonus. Whether they enjoyed it or not is debatable! . Seriously though once I stopped worrying so much about whether or not I was getting it right or what I was going to do next I found that moves came far more easily and I could freestyle with more confidence.

[Emma]

Originally posted by Jon
And a little tip if it all goes wrong just smile/laugh and the lady will think she messed up your move :sorry

Boy oh boy Jon, can't believe I missed this before! It's *officially* the man's fault and from now on babes, it's *always* gonna be yours!

...even if I'm dancing with someone else!

[Jon]

Whats why I'm always smiling while dancing. I'm trying to cover up all my mistakes

[Alfie]

Hi all,
I think I may have said this elsewhere before. When I was a baby dancer I was told by an extremely super lady, after I asked her if she was bored because of my limited number of moves, that she was happy to dance with me as I danced with style and flair.
I only class myself as average after four and a half years of dancing.
I counted my moves last night and I appear to have a stock set of about twenty moves most of which are beginners or variations of beginner moves with, a couple of crowd pleasers that I have learnt on a couple of workshops.
I try and make a dance as fun for my partener as it is for me without taking it tooo seriously!!!

[michael]

Hi there Beowulf Dont know how long you have been dancing for but you seem to be in a similiar position as myself. I am approaching the 3 months landmark so to speak and i am just beginning to look now at some moves other than the usual beginner ones.

David B is spot on on his first reply and i have taken a mental note so hopefully the comments will stay there. Since we are starting off it is massively important for experts like David B to make careful comments that help enormously for us to see where we are going and how.

I suppose we all have different ways of learning and picking up moves etc. i know one chap who just seems to pick up the theory instantly while others like myself need time to go over it sufficiently to have it burnt into our routine.

I bet there must be a small number of joining moves that once learnt along with the beginner moves will help with many of the other moves that we all want to learn.

A workshop on foundation joining moves if such a thing existed would be great.

It must be hard for teachers to keep everyone happy as we are all in different stages of learning. If i were a teacher i would go through three different set routines and ask the class which one they wanted to learn that week, that way we might avoid the wasted weeks when we hate the moves just shown. I would repeat the moves a couple of weeks later and maybe just add one wee extra one to spice it up for those with good memories?
if that happened i would have an extra couple of moves to add to my own limited routine.

As things stand for now i reckon the best way to add moves is probably just to keep going dancing as often as possible and eventually we will learn enough moves to keep us happy....until we get bored with them and off we go again........

This past week or so i have started to enjoy my wee simple moves that i do and i just try to do them a little bit better and in tune with the music. Adding a few extra over this next few weeks will greatly enhance my enjoyment and probably others (Jesus here we go again) but since the Big Perth Weekend i am startiing to realise how difficult it is to THINK ABOUT hitting a break never mind doing it. Perhaps those wee beginner moves will quickly become second nature to us and we do them without even thinking about it. Then and probably only then can we start to think about listening to the music instead of the next damn move. Hopefully the next stage will be to recognise where and when the breaks occur and a stage further again preparing something to do in the break??? Me's quite happy now with a few wee easy sways and seducers to practice for the breaks and the above tasks to look forward to.

Worry not fellow dancer (it never solved anything anyway did it) just enjoy yourself and do go to David and Lily's workshop if they have another on musical interpretation. Although it is hugely advanced it also (has for me) shows you the paths ahead.

I remember been given a sheet of paper with printed moves and what appeared to be extremely difficult things to co-ordinate between hand foot and eyes. I was asked if i thought i could do such things and was quick to reply "you must be joking" who the hell does all that? YOU DO all the time you are driving!!!