MJ Basics

[jim]

I’ve been working on footwork recently. And trying to find some patterns that really work in MJ.

Ideally I’m searching for a basic footwork pattern which is neat and well balanced and perfectly reflects MJ.

So I guess I have two questions:

What is MJ?
What basic footwork pattern best reflects it?

I’ll start by saying what I already think.

The basic as far as I’m concerned is left, right, left right. – I don’t know if it’s (slow, slow, quick, quick or Slow, slow, slow, slow. If someone could tell me that would be appreciated)

The L,R,L,R Basic has two popular derivatives.

1 The MJ Mambo step. Left goes forwards, left goes backward etc.

2 The MJ rock step or rock and roll step. Left goes backward, left goes to the side etc.

I said I was looking for a balanced pattern. In the two patterns above the left doing all the ‘work’. The steps are imbalanced.


The other popular basic is the ‘step tap’ or ‘step slide’ basic. As commonly used in the arm jive.

I think the step tap basic is well balanced and I like it, but I’m not sure it really reflects MJ. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but when you go from step tap basics into MJ it feels like you doing a different dance. – It’s a nice footwork pattern but it’s not ‘a basic’.

I’m starting to think about basic that might only work when you dancing with a partner. Basics that rely on tension or compression sort of like a sugar push or something similar. But my ideas are sketchy and I lack knowledge and understanding. I need some help.

Can anyone suggest any good basic footwork patterns for MJ?
Can anyone tell me how Modern Jive actually works or fundamentally what it is? (ignoring the fact that it contains many influences)?

[Minnie M]

I’ve been working on footwork recently. And trying to find some patterns that really work in MJ.

Ideally I’m searching for a basic footwork pattern which is neat and well balanced and perfectly reflects MJ.

So I guess I have two questions:

What is MJ?
What basic footwork pattern best reflects it?..............

Methinks you should ask Andy McGregor these questions

[Gadget]

Can anyone tell me how Modern Jive actually works or fundamentally what it is? (ignoring the fact that it contains many influences)?

Yea; you find yourself a partner. You find yourself some music. You both dance to it.

What makes it MJ rather than anything else? The fact that it is nothing else. Remove the rules that make salsa "salsa". Remove the rules that make tango "tango". Remove the rules that make WCS "WCS". Remove the rules and styling that define a dance as that particular dance and you are left with techniques to move to music, convey intent to a partner, listen to a partner and listen to the music. A common ground between just about all dance styles. Modern jive shares this common ground. The rules and styling used by dancers to dance MJ are a lot looser than most other styles: there will always be notable exceptions to every constraint you put on it.

Ceroc put some boundaries on it for beginners so that you have "moves" with specific movements and timing. But these are just constructs to help teach and learn.

Footwork: 1) Don't fall over. 2) Don't cause your partner to fall over. 3) don't upset your partner's balance. Within that, it's generally a good idea to time the foot's impact on the floor with a beat in the music.
Your footwork should really be determined by the music: 99% of all music played that you will be dancing MJ to will be in 4/4/ time, foot falls normally on every second beat which is one "count". Your weight is transferred from one foot to the other - if you can walk, then you can dance.

If you want to add in tripples, rondes, kicks, slides, taps, flicks, lunges, sweeps, moon-walks,or a little soft-shoe shuffle, then try and keep to the 'marching' timing. but you don't have to.

[under par]

fairly good description

The beauty of MJ is the freedom to do whatever you want without someone telling you...."thats not the right way" "Do it like this!" all the time.

So long as you do not hurt anyone you can do whatever feels right to the music.

[jim]

If MJ is a 'loose dance'. That's fine, it just means the rules should be 'loose'. - I'm just asking what those 'loose rules' are.

[NZ Monkey]

If MJ is a 'loose dance'. That's fine, it just means the rules should be 'loose'. - I'm just asking what those 'loose rules' are.

Gadget has pretty much summed it up.

You'll find some people who take a much more specific approach to footwork patterns than most, and some of them are very good indeed. Several of these very good people have differing ideas on what the basics should be.

Personally I prefer a more structured framework to build on than what Gadget has described, but as an overview of MJ as a whole I think he's spot on.

[straycat]

If MJ is a 'loose dance'. That's fine, it just means the rules should be 'loose'. - I'm just asking what those 'loose rules' are.

What (in my opinion) this all sums up to is simply that MJ is not built on any basic footwork patterns (beyond R L R L R L R L). If you want some, I'm afraid you're going to have to invent them, import them from other dances, or both.

[bigdjiver]

If MJ is a 'loose dance'. That's fine, it just means the rules should be 'loose'. - I'm just asking what those 'loose rules' are.

1) Try to ensure everybody enjoys themselves

Some beginner leadies need more precise guidance:
"Keep moving, keep smiling, when in doubt, wiggle."

[Gadget]

If MJ is a 'loose dance'. That's fine, it just means the rules should be 'loose'. - I'm just asking what those 'loose rules' are.

In footwork terms, the loose rules are a marching count: weight transfer on each count.

That's why some folk insist that you step back on a particular foot: as preparation for the next count and ones after. If you step back on the "correct" foot then this marching pattern is maintained.
But if you don't then you have to put in a triple or double shift or hold the weight for one count so that the next ones can be "correct" foot. Normally people will do this automatically without thinking. When people try and think on what foot they should be on, then it is much more likely to go pear shaped.

The rules of MJ:
{Rule 0) don't injure yourself.}
Rule 1) don't injure your partner.
... erm... that's just about it. But you could add...
2) have fun
3) dance in time with the music
4) dance with your partner

Note that there are no rules to do with moves, footwork, timing, lead, follow, shoes, music, or anything that you would normally think of using to define a dance style. The closest you can get to something like that the dance is mostly based on "marching" footwork and mostly danced to 4/4 music.


If you want to insert specific footwork into your MJ, then look at the basic beginner moves and concentrate on placing each foot on each count where it needs to be for the next count - reduce the shuffling & re-positioning of your feet used to orientate yourself and move yourself around your partner & the dance floor. Once you have the timing and placement of each count within each move perfected, then you can see where you can deviate and add in flourishes while keeping the same pattern.
Alternatively, Franck teaches a workshop of playing footsie while dancing(*) you may find interesting.

Personally I'm still trying to work out footwork for each movement within the beginner moves: where and when to place my feet, when to transfer my weight, when to pivot & turn, the orientation of each foot, the path they take over the floor, when to leave a foot & when to move it, ... all while still leading properly and without distracting my partner.

{* I can't remember the title, but it's something like that }

[Princess Fi]

[snip] when in doubt, wiggle."

I'm sure that's a typo, and you meant to write "When awake"

(or is that just me? :whistle

[geoff332]

The most important things for MJ footwork is to move your body and weight for your current movement and to get your body and weight in the right place for whatever's coming next. MJ is not a footwork-based dance and specific footwork isn't all that important.

There are a basic guidelines - all of which are general dancing guidelines, not MJ specific:

• Every weight change is a 'step', even if you don't move your feet. This is because you move your body and your weight.
• Spinning - make sure you're on the correct foot to spin (and your follower is on the correct foot). Some people insist you can spin either way in either foot. You can, but you look rubbish doing it and it messes up your balance. The rule is, always spin on the inside foot.
• Keep your feet under your weight - which means not overextending and generally taking small steps.
• Keep your weight on one foot or another; don't split your weight between your feet. This just makes your life harder and slows down your moves.
• When you step, you almost always step on the beat. This doesn't mean you have to step on every beat, but when you do step hit the beat.

There are some exceptions to all of these guidelines, but they're much rarer than you might think. As I said, none of these are specific to MJ, but are general guidelines for pretty much every dance I've done.

For MJ, I'd recommend figuring out the minimum number of steps you can get away with for any move and focusing on that. It's really easy to add steps in as styling or a flourish, but it's really hard to take them out (without falling over). If you are going to use specific footwork patterns (such as triples, lock steps, a Columbian, or even a little syncopation), try and get them right or they just look ugly and are very hard to lead or follow.

[bigdjiver]

I'm sure that's a typo, and you meant to write "When awake"

(or is that just me? :whistle

Any lady dancing with me is always in doubt.

[Gadget]

The most important things for MJ footwork is to move your body and weight for your current movement and to get your body and weight in the right place for whatever's coming next. MJ is not a footwork-based dance and specific footwork isn't all that important.

There are a basic guidelines - all of which are general dancing guidelines, not MJ specific:

• Spinning - make sure you're on the correct foot to spin (and your follower is on the correct foot). Some people insist you can spin either way in either foot. You can, but you look rubbish doing it and it messes up your balance. The rule is, always spin on the inside foot.

I'm one of those people. I think that there is an easier foot to spin on, and an easier direction to spin, but practice in the opposite direction and opposite foot will make it not so rubbish and your balance will get better doing it.
Same with the advice to spin on your toes rather than heels: you can spin on your heels, but it's very difficult to do while maintaining control and balance. Practice if you want to.

• Keep your weight on one foot or another; don't split your weight between your feet. This just makes your life harder and slows down your moves.

The most notable exception to this is when you are going to be taking any of the follower's weight - then you need to be rooted with a solid base rather than on one foot.

Other than that, to all the above.

[MartinHarper]

Can anyone suggest any good basic footwork patterns for MJ?

The basic footwork pattern is the LRLR pattern you observed yourself in the mambo step and rock step. As you observe, this often means that the leader's left foot tends to "do more work" because Modern Jive tends to emphasise the downbeats. There are many dances with asymmetric basic footwork patterns. If you would prefer to dance a symmetric basic footwork pattern, I recommend learning a dance with a symmetric basic footwork pattern, such as Waltz.

[timbp]

I don’t know if it’s (slow, slow, quick, quick or Slow, slow, slow, slow. If someone could tell me that would be appreciated)

Slow, slow, slow, slow.

Pretty boring?

So forget the feet; express the music in your body, your arms, your partner's body and arms; in the pace you lead moves; in the space you allow your partner to follow moves.
And when that exhausts your creativity, then think about your feet and how they can add to your expression of the music.

Until then, let your feet do slow, slow, slow, slow, and learn to dance.

[jiveoholic]

Jive - not a precise dance! Rubbish! You just need the right notation (http://www.jiveoholic.org.uk/mathsjive.asp)!

[straycat]

Jive - not a precise dance! Rubbish! You just need the right notation (http://www.jiveoholic.org.uk/mathsjive.asp)!

So, judging from that page, you're claiming that it's precise but not accurate?

[Amir]

Don't confuse 'what is the basic footwork for MJ' with other irrelevant questions like, 'what is the definition of MJ' or 'what are the rules of MJ' etc.

The intention behind the question is probably either

a) to make it easier to learn
b) to make it easier to classify

In either case, the answer 'there are no basics, do what you want' is less helpful then simply providing a basic footwork rhythm that can be applied to almost all MJ moves. Its a subjective answer, obviously, but almost everyone I know who has given the question serious thought comes up with the same answer, which is the walking rhythm of one step per beat, men on their left on the downbeat and women on their right.

This is not a definition of modern jive nor is it a rule. But if someone can come up with a better 'basic' footwork pattern which

a) can be applied to almost all MJ moves
b) is simpler (ie, even more basic)
c) is as specific

Then you'll have convinced at least me.

[jim]

almost everyone I know who has given the question serious thought comes up with the same answer, which is the walking rhythm of one step per beat, men on their left on the downbeat and women on their right.

This is not a definition of modern jive nor is it a rule. But if someone can come up with a better 'basic' footwork pattern which

a) can be applied to almost all MJ moves
b) is simpler (ie, even more basic)
c) is as specific

Then you'll have convinced at least me.

I won't dispute that but I might add.

'The Man's left footstepping in any direction on the first down beat of a four beat count'.

By this I imply that the left foot is the 'active foot' and the One count marks the musical phrasing.

Only the left foot, because it's not critical what you do in between; as long as you come out 'on the left' and 'on the one'.

In any direction. We can create tension, compression or union by moving away from our partner, towards our partner or with our partner.

[Amir]

The rules and styling used by dancers to dance MJ are a lot looser than most other styles: there will always be notable exceptions to every constraint you put on it.

What dance styles do you know of that have rules without notable exceptions?