WCS - a newbie's perspective

[Lory]

I might come with you next week, just to be nosey!

[David Bailey]

Westie Royalty - we shall be honoured by your presence.

[NZ Monkey]

I just found a reasonably good clip of Ballroom WCS - http://www.wcsvideos.com/video/4929/

Does that look like what you're learning DB? Was there another class this week?

[David Bailey]

Blimey, I dunno... yes, I think it looks quite similar, roughly. Although Paul and Carol dance far, far better, with about 1,000% more attitude and flexibility. FWIW, I was trying some variations as demonstrated by Lory last night, they seemed to work fine also, so I reckon the styles are compatible. The essential thing is that the timing is identical. I'm actually giving up on the tap-step stuff and just doing triple steps; same effect and to be honest I find it easier.

Yes, there was a class last night and I'll do a write-up. Errr, when I'm not busy working...

[David Franklin]

I'm actually giving up on the tap-step stuff and just doing triple steps; same effect and to be honest I find it easier.

Well, we did tell you it was easier to triple-step...

[FoxyFunkster]

Blimey, I dunno... yes, I think it looks quite similar, roughly. Although Paul and Carol dance far, far better, with about 1,000% more attitude and flexibility. FWIW, I was trying some variations as demonstrated by Lory last night, they seemed to work fine also, so I reckon the styles are compatible. The essential thing is that the timing is identical. I'm actually giving up on the tap-step stuff and just doing triple steps; same effect and to be honest I find it easier.

Yes, there was a class last night and I'll do a write-up. Errr, when I'm not busy working...

Who teaches out of interest?? i can't find any details about the class on there website....does anyone have the link???

[Caro]

I just found a reasonably good clip of Ballroom WCS - http://www.wcsvideos.com/video/4929/

Holy Shamoly !!!!

[Lory]

Holy Shamoly !!!!

What's wrong with it?

[meghann]

I just found a reasonably good clip of Ballroom WCS - http://www.wcsvideos.com/video/4929/

Hmm....to me, an uninitiated novice, that really doesn't look like a swing dance any more (yes I know we've already had the discussion about what a swing dance is). Is it classed more as a swing dance or as ballroom?

[NZ Monkey]

Hmm....to me, an uninitiated novice, that really doesn't look like a swing dance any more (yes I know we've already had the discussion about what a swing dance is). Is it classed more as a swing dance or as ballroom?

Well, as I said before I'm really not a fan of the ballroom version of WCS. It's essentially WCS patterns minus all the aspects that WCS cool in my opinion. The guy in this clip seems to his basics the way DB described though, and it's a feasibly good quality clip even though I don't like the dancing.

There is practically no interaction between ballroom WCS dancers and all the others, and a lot of little but important details in the timing and technique are different so I'd be inclined to call this a ballroom dance. Straycat will argue that conventional WCS isn't a swing dance anyway.

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter either way. :shrug:

[David Bailey]

What I'd be interested in knowing is if someone with a background in "ballroom WCS" can dance OK with someone with a background in "non-ballroom WCS", for want of better terms.

If it's simply a stylistic difference, comparable to the differences between (say) Cuban and LA-style salsa, then it's not worth worrying about. People dance in different ways. I also suspect that a lot of us in the MJ world have a very MJ-centric view of WCS dancing - only natural, because a lot of the people teaching or learning WCS now come from the MJ world.

[NZ Monkey]

If it's simply a stylistic difference, comparable to the differences between (say) Cuban and LA-style salsa, then it's not worth worrying about.

I wouldn't worry about it

I also suspect that a lot of us in the MJ world have a very MJ-centric view of WCS dancing - only natural, because a lot of the people teaching or learning WCS now come from the MJ world.

I'm not sure I follow you here. Do you mean that we expect to see WCS that looks something like MJ or am I missing your point entirely?

[frodo]

...a lot of little but important details in the timing and technique are different so I'd be inclined to call this a ballroom dance ...

True it doesn't matter, but it makes your comments relating to the boundary between jive and WCS a bit more understandable.

What I'd be interested in knowing is if someone with a background in "ballroom WCS" can dance OK with someone with a background in "non-ballroom WCS", for want of better terms.

I think you've got the consider the context in which it is danced.

Ballroom WCS may be done by dancers who consider it one among many dances (maybe 5-15). As such it is unlikely to be done to a very high level.

Given the level at which it is being danced any differences may be far outweighed by individual variations.

[NZ Monkey]

I just read my post a few entries higher on a real computer screen, and think it's time I turn off auto-correct on the iPod I used to write it.....

[meghann]

I just read my post a few entries higher on a real computer screen, and think it's time I turn off auto-correct on the iPod I used to write it.....

I assume you've seen damnyouautocorrect.com

[David Franklin]

If it's simply a stylistic difference, comparable to the differences between (say) Cuban and LA-style salsa, then it's not worth worrying about.

I'd say the difference is more like AT v.s. Ballroom Tango (possibly not quite so extreme). Or Lindy v.s. Ballroom Jive.

For sure, in all 3 cases, the Ballroom version is, um, not regarded highly by "true aficionados of the authentic dance (TM)".

I also suspect that a lot of us in the MJ world have a very MJ-centric view of WCS dancing - only natural, because a lot of the people teaching or learning WCS now come from the MJ world.

I don't think that's true; there's a *lot* of influence from the US dancers - if nothing else (and there's a lot else), because most everyone wants to look like Jordan and Tatiana.

(TM): "true aficionados of the authentic dance" is a registered trademark of JanTango, BsAs.

[David Bailey]

For sure, in all 3 cases, the Ballroom version is, um, not regarded highly by "true aficionados of the authentic dance (TM)".

Sounds familiar.

I don't think that's true; there's a *lot* of influence from the US dancers - if nothing else (and there's a lot else), because most everyone wants to look like Jordan and Tatiana.

I simply meant that there's a symbiotic (and possibly unhealthy) relationship between MJ and WCS - basically a lot of people starting WCS come from MJ, and some of them seem to think WCS is MJ for advanced dancers. So the viewpoint of the dance must be, to a point, affected by that. But I take your point about the US influence.

The thing is, I don't believe my classes are incompatible with other styles. I attempted to put the variations Lory demonstrated in on Thursday, and they worked fine with my partners...

I guess the real test will be if I can manage to freestyle with anyone. But at the moment, I can't really freestyle with anyone anyway...

[David Bailey]

So, a little belatedy, here's my review...

We did a lot of revision to get started with - Sugar Push, Whip, and that Weird Move I Didn't Like Last Week (shoulder-roll? Something like that, blimey, I thought AT move names were strange... anyway...) The WMIDLLW did actually get slightly easier, but I still don't think much of it.

After a bit of revision, the class split up for the first time, with Carol taking the new beginners, and us old hand experts working on another move. This was another complex sequence thing:
* Right-to-right hold
* Cross-body lead (lady going around the man's left side)
* Catch in a crucifix / airplane position (lady in front of man - both facing the same direction)
* Lady does a couple of triple-steps in one direction, then the other
* Lady then does a fast series of 4 pivot steps on the spot
* Lady turns 1.5 turns clockwise to finish facing the guy

Anyone have a name for that sequence?

Anyway, I quite liked it, but again like last week it's a bit artificial. Personally I'd prefer to experiment with variations on the sugar push for a few weeks, but then I'm weird...

We all got back together at the end, but the class was overrunning like crazy (75 minutes), so there was an extremely-abbreviated AT class, which just focussed on the sandwich within the 8CB. I know, I know...

[David Bailey]

And this week's review...

The main WCS class again was a bit of a marathon at 80 minutes... at least we're getting our money's worth from it

We had some more total newbies, so we split into beginner and improver classes, and we spent some more time working on the basic Sugar Push and Whip moves, with the emphasis that these are two fundamental movements. I thnk most of us who started a whole 5 weeks ago are now reasonably comfortable with those movements and the timings of them, so that's good progress.

Fortunately, we didn't do another complex routine-based movement sequence this week - we did a couple of nice straightforward movements, basically a "left side pass" and "right side pass". The key things about these, I think, were for:
- Leader to step to the side
- Follower to step forwards

Everything else simply flowed from the step-step-triple-triple timing. Leading the woman to walk to my right side (is that the right-side pass) under my left arm took a bit of getting used to - I think the best lead was to basically crook my left arm and let her go, rather than "lead" her.

But they're both nice movements, and it's great to be able to use them without feeling like I'm going through an artificial routine of some kind. So I definitely prefer these movements to the ones we've done in the past couple of weeks.

[Lory]

Leading the woman to walk to my right side (is that the right-side pass) under my left arm took a bit of getting used to - I think the best lead was to basically crook my left arm and let her go, rather than "lead" her.

Once you've lead the initial movement, indicating the ladies course, its the ladies default job to continue to the other side, unless she's stopped and sent back of course.
Hopefully, once you start leading ladies who're slightly more experienced, you won't need feel the need to lead them them through the whole move.