LEROC Trademark

[Billy Cullen]

"LEROC" Trademark

The post is simply to inform the dancing community that a recent application for trademark has been accepted under the following classes.

Class 09:
DVDs, CDs and CD-ROMs; DVDs, CDs and CD-ROMs relating to dancing; downloadable publications.

Class 16:
Paper, cardboard and goods made from these materials, not included in other Classes; printed matter; book-binding materials; photographs; stationery; adhesives for stationery or household purposes; artist's materials; paint brushes; typewriters and office requisites (except furniture); instructional and teaching material (except apparatus); plastic materials for packaging (not included in other Classes); printers; printing blocks.

Class 41:
Education; providing of training; entertainment; sporting and cultural activities; provision of online electronic publications (not downloadable); dance instruction services; provision of dance classes and courses; operation of dance halls; arranging, organisation and hosting of training centres and courses all relating to dancing; booking agency services relating to dance classes and courses; live dance exhibitions; entertainment services; publishing of materials relating to dancing; information, advisory and consultancy services relating to all the aforesaid services.
Proprietor: Billy Cullen
Leroc Ltd, 244 Bath Street, Glasgow, G2 4JW

[robd]

"LEROC" Trademark

The post is simply to inform the dancing community that a recent application for trademark has been accepted under the following classes.
{snip}

What about 'Leroc' or 'LeRoC' - does capitalisation matter?

Will we have to use asterisks within the L Word now?

How do we do those pesky tm characters after it in our posts?

So many questions.

[Caro]

"LEROC" Trademark

Sorry Billy, but the point is.... ?

Are you expecting something from us on this forum ?

Hope you can clarify why you posted this

[tsh]

I guess we'd be safe to refer to it as LaRoc instead.

[bigdjiver]

Sorry Billy, but the point is.... ?

Are you expecting something from us on this forum ?

Hope you can clarify why you posted this

Some people would have done this as quietly as possible so nobody had a chance to protest. At the very least this would have generated extra bad feeling.

This way anybody who feels that the originators of the name wanted this to be a public domain name and are willing to act on that principle have a chance to do so.

I would imagine that Chrisitne Keeble, who, as I recall, publishes a video using that name, and others that run classes under that banner, might at least object, and perhaps even counter-claim.

This gives the trade-mark office a chance to decide if Leroc is trade-marketable. If it decides not, that should benefit everybody using the name. It will not then be possible for someone to do a sneaky application.

Credit either way to Billy, market savvy with principles.

[ducasi]

Billy, is your intention with this trademark to stop other people using the name "LEROC", to licence it, or neither of these things?

I feel that as people have been using the word for about 30 years now, and at least 20 years commercially, it will not be difficult for them to contest your registration. (I am not a trade mark lawyer though.)

[Caro]

(snip stuff)

right I think I'm starting to understand - does it mean that Leroc is now a brand that is owned by Billy ?

For some reason I assumed it was already the case, like Ceroc.

[ducasi]

right I think I'm starting to understand - does it mean that Leroc is now a brand that is owned by Billy ?

For some reason I assumed it was already the case, like Ceroc.

As I understand it, "Leroc" was never trademarked by the folks who set up the Leroc Federation so that anyone to use it – even if they were not affiliated. They wanted it to become a generic name, as opposed to Ceroc.

[Steven666]

What about 'Leroc' or 'LeRoC' - does capitalisation matter?

Will we have to use asterisks within the L Word now?

How do we do those pesky tm characters after it in our posts?

So many questions.

(Hold) Alt
0
1
5
3

And you get ™

[dep]

LEROC It's blanlk.

Do I have to turn on the ALT special symbols facility?
I use XP & Firefox.

[Andy McGregor]

I'm not going to look at the applications again. I looked a while ago. However, it seems to me that the application was for the particular logo that Billy uses. He has not, as far as I can see, trademarked the name "LeRoc". If this is the case there is nothing to stop anybody continuing to use the name. They just can't use Billy's logo.

It's a bit like calling your nightclub "SEX" and writing it in a particular way. No other nightclub could write the word "SEX" using that particular style or anything approximating to it in a way that would confuse a member of the public. However, we'd all be able to continue to offer "sex" services (oops, why did I choose "sex"?)

Come on Billy, do you think you now have exclusive rights to use the name "LeRoc"?

[John S]

Billy, if you want a really wide public debate you might want to consider raising the matter via the Wikipedia editing/discussion forums, as the present entry is quite specific that "today, many unrelated Modern Jive organisations are free to use the term "LeRoc" in their names, as it remains a generic term.".

See LeRoc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[David Bailey]

Interesting.

From here:
LEROC - LEROC Trade Mark
It looks like the following are Trademarked:

"LEROC" ®, a registered Trade Mark of: Mr Billy Cullen, Leroc Ltd, and Leroc (Scotland) Ltd,

"LEROC Dance Addiction" ®, a registered Trade Mark of: Mr Billy Cullen, Leroc Ltd, and Leroc (Scotland) Ltd,

"LEROC BIG Dance " ®, is also a registered Trade Mark of Leroc Ltd, and Leroc (Scotland) Ltd,

Note the "®" symbol, rather than "™" - ® is for registered trademarks, whereas ™ is for trademarks that you want to claim. So ® is "stronger" in that sense.

Looking at the UKIPO, the "LEROC" image is registered in several variants (for example, here),.

But it's not clear whether use of the word itself - with any capitalisation - is trademarked.

Interestingly, "CEROC" has been registered since 1988 (see here), under Class 09, 25 and 41.

Class 09:
Pre-recorded tapes and cassettes, all bearing sound and/or visual recordings.
Class 25:
Articles of dancewear for sales to students attending Ceroc dance instruction courses (and not for sale through retail outlets).
Class 41:
Booking agency services for performing artists; theatre production services; instruction services, relating to dance, the performing arts and physical exercise; all included in Class 41.

[David Bailey]

Come on Billy, do you think you now have exclusive rights to use the name "LeRoc"?

I assume Billy's simply announcing it, to protect his trademark.

Although how much legal protection is gained from announcing it in the Ceroc Scotland forum is, well, debatable.

[pmjd]

Billy, how on earth did you manage to get this trademark? I could understand if you'd got Leroc Scotland trademarked but how did you get Leroc on it's own as:

Requirements for trade mark registration

must be
* distinctive for the goods or services which you are applying to register it for.

and you aren't exactly the only company in the UK that is using the term Leroc

[ducasi]

(Hold) Alt
0
1
5
3

And you get ™

On a Mac... option-2 give you ™

And option-R gives you ®

You'd have thought that Microsoft would have got round to copying this sort of ease of use from the Mac by now – after all, they've had almost 25 years.

[Andy McGregor]

I assume Billy's simply announcing it, to protect his trademark.

Although how much legal protection is gained from announcing it in the Ceroc Scotland forum is, well, debatable.

I think Billy is announcing it in a way that is ambiguous. To me it seems he's trying to imply that he has exclusive use to the word "Leroc". It's a while since I did a course on trademarks, but my take on it is that he's trademarked his logo, not the word "Leroc". If you look here you will see a list of trademarks. A few down from the Leroc trademark you will find a trademark for "Look at me" when you go here you will see that it is written in a stylish way. As far as I can see the only protection is to stop people using their stylish logo - it would be unthinkable to claim that they are the only company that can use the phrase "look at me".

So, to go back to my earlier question and to repeat it in a strident way in the hope of getting an answer. Is Billy claiming that his is the only company that can now use the word Leroc? And, to paraphrase the other trademark "you lookin' at me?"

N.B. I have no plans to start calling my company Leroc. However, I do have the Leroc teaching qualification and would like to be able to use that name on my materials without having to get permission from Billy Cullen

[David Bailey]

Billy, how on earth did you manage to get this trademark? I could understand if you'd got Leroc Scotland trademarked but how did you get Leroc on it's own

As I understand it, the trademarking applies to the design - the all-caps, the 3D effect, the colours and so on. As Andy says, you're trademarking the logo rather than the term.

If anyone else uses one of those specific designs to promote their classes, presumably that'd be an infringement. But I doubt very much that you can be successfully sued for using the word itself in your business name.

Barry / Trampy, care to comment?

[Stuart M]

"LEROC" Trademark
Class 41:
Education; providing of training; entertainment; sporting and cultural activities; provision of online electronic publications (not downloadable); dance instruction services; provision of dance classes and courses; operation of dance halls; arranging, organisation and hosting of training centres and courses all relating to dancing; booking agency services relating to dance classes and courses; live dance exhibitions; entertainment services; publishing of materials relating to dancing; information, advisory and consultancy services relating to all the aforesaid services.

I think "acting like a complete diddy in a Ceroc refresher class" is missing from this section

[pmjd]

As I understand it, the trademarking applies to the design - the all-caps, the 3D effect, the colours and so on. As Andy says, you're trademarking the logo rather than the term.

Thanks DJ, I looked a bit more and there are 14 designs to choose from in Billy's Leroc logos, including a black text on orange background one

If anyone else uses one of those specific designs to promote their classes, presumably that'd be an infringement. But I doubt very much that you can be successfully sued for using the word itself in your business name.

Well Apple and Intel seem to keep they're legal departments quite busy by going after companies that use the words "pod" and "intel", respectively, as even part of other words.