Cha-cha on the 1

[robd]

Moved from the who's going where thread - David

Wondering what to do this weekend and looked at the iJig promo materials - there is an afternoon workshop with Keith and Bev (very nice follow ) from Revolution Dance and one of the sessions will be

[INDENT]• Cha Cha on the 1 – Only Jivers can do this! Fun & sexy.[/INDENT]



Only Jivers can do this? Maybe only Jivers would want to do this?

[Lory]

[INDENT]• Cha Cha on the 1 – Only Jivers can do this! [/INDENT]



Only Jivers can do this? Maybe only Jivers would want to do this?

I would read that as 'tongue in cheek', it made me chuckle anyway!

[David Bailey]

[INDENT]• Cha Cha on the 1 – Only Jivers can do this! Fun & sexy.[/INDENT]



Only Jivers can do this? Maybe only Jivers would want to do this?

Well, to be fair, whilst it's not "proper" chacha, dancing on 1 is much easier for MJ-ers.

It also says:

Salsa LA Style on the 1

Errr, yes? LA style is always on the 1.

And:

don’t forget they will be teaching you the beautiful Argentine Tango in the fun class at our “Black and White” Ball later on

Oh good. Sounds like fun.

[Brighton Belle]

<B>
[INDENT]• Cha Cha on the 1 – Only Jivers can do this! Fun & sexy.
[/INDENT]</B>

I'm sure I should know this already but what does 'on the 1' mean? And why does this make Cha Cha more sexy than usual??

[David Bailey]

I'm sure I should know this already but what does 'on the 1' mean?

It's the first beat of the chacha bar thingy. Clave or whatever it's called. Basically, it's whether you step on the first beat (1), or the second (2, not surprisingly).

Classic chacha is on the 2 - as is Rumba and some salsa styles.

But "on 2" is more difficult to learn for MJ-ers, so mostly we dance on the 1.

And why does this make Cha Cha more sexy than usual??

It doesn't.

[DavidY]

But "on 2" is more difficult to learn for MJ-ers, so mostly we dance on the 1.

I did a fair amount of Cha Cha before I started MJ, but if I try to swap mid-dance I also somehow end up Cha-Cha-ing on 1 too, (and getting annoyed with myself because I know I'm on the wrong beat).

[David Bailey]

I did a fair amount of Cha Cha before I started MJ, but if I try to swap mid-dance I also somehow end up Cha-Cha-ing on 1 too, (and getting annoyed with myself because I know I'm on the wrong beat).

Me too - I think it's because we naturally step on the down beat in MJ, and that's the "On 1" beat in a chacha. Although my terms could be woefully wrong, as I know damn all about music.

[Martin]

I did a fair amount of Cha Cha before I started MJ, but if I try to swap mid-dance I also somehow end up Cha-Cha-ing on 1 too, (and getting annoyed with myself because I know I'm on the wrong beat).

Well, having taught cha cha meets Ceroc before (first time was at the first ever Southport weekender) , where we go from a manhatten into a cha cha step, which would mean on the 1. I have been berated by Latin cha cha dancers in the past.

However, the top Latin cha cha dancer locally (who won under 18's several years running, has done clasical training and is now a well respected instructor) went through this with me and explained that there are 2 camps on cha cha, on 1 and on 2... in the same way that you can do Salsa on 1 or on 2.

Some forms of cha cha do indeed do it on 1.

She explained it is more of a snobery, or lack of knowledge thing, if you need to stick to one view on it.

In the same way, locally, Salsa was always done on 1... now they have "on 2" classes. (from the 5 times world champs)

So, yes, on 1 can be done, and yes, if you have learnt only one way, it can be difficult to change it around.

[David Bailey]

Some forms of cha cha do indeed do it on 1.

Mmm.... to be fair, I think it's in a very small minority. Whereas in salsa, the "on 1" camp is definitely in the majority - in the UK at least.

Sure, there's no musical reasons for either choice, it's largely convention - but if you only know chacha on the 1, you're likely to encounter problems trying to dance with most other chacha dancers.

[rubyred]

I was taught cha cha on the 2, the 1 I always thought was the first step to the side then 2,3 cha cha cha after that..same for rumba as I recall. Salsa teachers in UK that I have known start the New York style on the 1 - 1,2,3 then 5,6,7 or 1 quick 2 quick 3/4slow, 5 quick 6 quick 7/8slow. Not sure about cuban, I just follow wherever on that one.

[David Bailey]

I was taught cha cha on the 2, the 1 I always thought was the first step to the side then 2,3 cha cha cha after that..same for rumba as I recall.

Yup - shift weight on 1 and step on 2. For both rumba and salsa.

[Martin]

Mmm.... to be fair, I think it's in a very small minority.

However it is out there, which means it is not "wrong", just different.

Whereas in salsa, the "on 1" camp is definitely in the majority - in the UK at least.

True, the reason they started teaching "on 2" locally was that "on 2" is part of some world-wide comps, so to ensure the 'locals' could compete at the higest levels in all catogories, they also teach "on 2".
I learnt Rueda "on 1", they now also teach Rueda "on 2".

Sure, there's no musical reasons for either choice, it's largely convention - but if you only know chacha on the 1, you're likely to encounter problems trying to dance with most other chacha dancers.

True, as most cha cha schools teach on 2. A lot of very experienced MJ and cha cha dancers seem to be able to adapt well to change though.

If I were to dance cha cha for the whole song, then I would naturally dance cha cha on 2, as that is how I was taught.
If you are doing MJ and just dipping into and out of cha cha, as you are dancing on the 1 beat in MJ, I find it more natural to break seamlessly into and out of cha cha on the 1.

After all it is supposed to be just a bit of fun.

[robd]

However it is out there, which means it is not "wrong", just different.

Well, that's one interpretation but by the same token I could choose to dance it on the '3'. I think that would be wrong but by your definition it would just be different. At some point there is a concensus of opinion which forms an accepted way of doing something.

It seems that Cha Cha on the '1' is the predominant style for MJ dancers dancing or teaching Cha Cha to other MJ dancers - perhaps the issue is with them calling it cha cha rather than just Latin jive or something similarly generic?

[David Bailey]

Well, that's one interpretation but by the same token I could choose to dance it on the '3'. I think that would be wrong but by your definition it would just be different. At some point there is a concensus of opinion which forms an accepted way of doing something.

Yeah, I think the "chacha on 1" community is pretty small.

It seems that Cha Cha on the '1' is the predominant style for MJ dancers dancing or teaching Cha Cha to other MJ dancers - perhaps the issue is with them calling it cha cha rather than just Latin jive or something similarly generic?

Blimey, Latin Jive, haven't heard that for a while - used to hear that all the time, it used to be The Big Thing

Actually, I'd still call it chacha, like the Revolution Dance guys, but emphasize that it's on 1.

[Andy McGregor]

Having learnt ballroom and Latin before I attended MJ I've been surprised to see Cha Cha taught on the 1 so often at MJ classes.

Years ago I was told, possibly incorrectly, that the Cha Cha was based on Mambo music. Mambo music tells you it's on the 1 more than the 2. And, in much of the music with "Cha Cha" in the lyrics it sounds like there's an emphasis on the 1.

So, the music is telling you to take your first step on the 1. But the convention is that is the last of the 3 Chas. So we are taught at ballroom to mark that beat with a step, usually to the side.

I'm guessing, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility, that some snooty ballroom dancing in-crowd decided to start on the 2 to make themselves seem special and different. Possibly different from Salsa dancers with their genuine smiles, vests and sweaty, muscular bodies

I think that calling your class "Cha-cha on the 1" is a great idea. The purists can't complain because it's what you said it was and the rest of us can dance on the obvious beat.

[Daisy Chain]

I'm guessing, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility, that some snooty ballroom dancing in-crowd decided to start on the 2 to make themselves seem special and different. QUOTE]

Alternatively, some muppet teacher got it wrong and perpetuated his mistake amongst his students.

Daisy

(Definite A One Little FLower)

[robd]

I don't think it's the starting step that's the issue it's which counts you do the 'cha,cha,cha'.

In many (but not all) the Cha Cha for Jivers classes I have seen the chachacha steps have been on the 3&4. In ballroom I have been taught the chachacha steps only on the 4&1 but have had one teacher starting the basic straight on the 2 and one starting with a sidestep on 1 as an entry into the first basic. Either way the chachacha steps are still on 4&1.

[Martin]

Well, that's one interpretation but by the same token I could choose to dance it on the '3'. I think that would be wrong but by your definition it would just be different. At some point there is a concensus of opinion which forms an accepted way of doing something.

ho hum, I thought I covered this in "She explained it is more of a snobery, or lack of knowledge thing, if you need to stick to one view on it."

So is it snobery, or a lack of knowlege?

Here is a clip from wiki, in case it is indeed a lack of knowledge...

"There are three flavors of cha-cha-cha dance, differing by the place of the cha-cha-cha chasse with respect to the musical bar. The original Cuban Cha-cha-cha and the Ballroom Cha-cha-cha count "two-three-chachacha".

Country/western cha-cha-cha and Latin street cha-cha-cha in some places other than Cuba count "one-two-chachacha" or "chachacha-three-four"."

It seems that Cha Cha on the '1' is the predominant style for MJ dancers dancing or teaching Cha Cha to other MJ dancers - perhaps the issue is with them calling it cha cha rather than just Latin jive or something similarly generic?

Not really, it is still cha cha cha.

In the same way you can do a circle to start your MJ, and I can do a push back, we are still dancing MJ.

You could argue that bringing American Country/Western cha cha cha and Street Latin cha cha cha into MJ is not the way to go, but then you would also need to look at WCS, another American product.

[David Bailey]

Having learnt ballroom and Latin before I attended MJ I've been surprised to see Cha Cha taught on the 1 so often at MJ classes.

Years ago I was told, possibly incorrectly, that the Cha Cha was based on Mambo music. Mambo music tells you it's on the 1 more than the 2. And, in much of the music with "Cha Cha" in the lyrics it sounds like there's an emphasis on the 1.

You realise you're opening a massive can of worms here, yes?

<Lethal Weapon IV>In dance-forums, you would already be dead</LW IV>

I'm guessing, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility, that some snooty ballroom dancing in-crowd decided to start on the 2 to make themselves seem special and different.

You're guessing wrongly.

I think that calling your class "Cha-cha on the 1" is a great idea. The purists can't complain because it's what you said it was and the rest of us can dance on the obvious beat.

Yes, I agree.

[Andy McGregor]

You're guessing wrongly.

Are you sure? Or are you just guessing?