Leaders entering the Blues Room: Fears & Expectations

[cederic]

Why not?

Lack of ability, and lack of confidence in ability. As a lead it's bloody scary and I've had it go wrong before (in Southport - I just couldn't dance as well as my partner clearly expected). I'm getting there, slowly.

The times I did pop in, the atmosphere was fantastic and the music was very good, but there was no shortage of very good dancers in the ballroom (even on Sunday night).

I'm really sorry for all those people who couldn't find daytime dancing, CFJ's had it all!

I did try to pop down early on Saturday afternoon, to show a lady where to find it. The doors at the top of the stairs were closed so we assumed the room was closed/empty

[Tiger Pants]

(in Southport - I just couldn't dance as well as my partner clearly expected)

.......... what a terrible experience that must have been. You should really try again, by trying you will succeed.
In my experience I always start off with someone I know will make me feel comfortable, like a regular from my area or someone like DT, MM, Lory or many others on the forum.
Don't give up, the blues room (where ever it is ) is certainly the place I've had some of my best dancing experiences.

[Double Trouble]

Lack of ability, and lack of confidence in ability. As a lead it's bloody scary and I've had it go wrong before (in Southport - I just couldn't dance as well as my partner clearly expected). I'm getting there, slowly.

I danced with a couple of men on Friday and Saturday night in the blues room who both told me it was there first time in the blues room and would I mind dancing with them, which of course, I didn't (didn't mind, not didn't dance with them) All I can say is they asked as many women as they could, no one refused from what I saw and they looked like they were loving every minute. Practice is the key, be bold and ask loads of people to dance.

I wished you'd asked me. I saw that you were going to Metropolis so had a sneaky look at your profile picture so I could look out for you and introduce myself, but your picture doesn't really give me much of a clue as to what you look like. Please ask me next time.

[Chef]

Lack of ability, and lack of confidence in ability. As a lead it's bloody scary and I've had it go wrong before (in Southport - I just couldn't dance as well as my partner clearly expected). I'm getting there, slowly.

I really feel for you and every leader that wants to learn blues dancing. An able leader can really help a follower break into blues dancing but new leaders just find themselves in the driving seat with almost no tutition and only what they see on the dance floor as an inspiration.

So what can I say to a new leader that may help?

1) Get on the floor and give it your best shot. You can learn a whole lot more with an able follower in your arms than you can sat on your butt watching or in a different room being scared of the blues room.

2) Effort will always be appreciated almost as much as ability. Ask your followers for help and advice and listen to it. Each one will have different advice and it will all be useful partly from the common themes that run through it and partly because of the differances.

3) The music is the utter beginning and end of blues dancing. The most flashy move won't mean a thing if it doesn't fit the music. So concentrate on the music and feeling how you would move to it when you are not actually dancing. If you do what the music tells you to do then you wil rarely be wrong. Your follower will also want her opportunity to be expressive to the music and if you develop a feel for the music then you will find that you will deliver her to the music that will naturally create even more space for her to be expressive even within the dance that you are leading. When the music becomes part of your body then you will move to it and when that happens a good follower will merely (and wonderfully) respond to that - a feeling that is utterly georgous.

4) The part of blues dancing that is alien to an MJ dancer is the part in close hold. When you find ourself in close hold then you are in uncharted territory for you and there is the strong drive to lead out to open hold where you feel you can have more ideas from your MJ training. Some of you MJ moves can be adapted to blues - most will feel wrong like MJ done in treacle. So the advice is to work on close hold dancing. A great dance can be had almost on the spot and entirely in close hold.

5) When you move your body it is important to wait until you feel your follower has arrived where you want her before you lead her anywhere else. If you don't it will feel jarring to your follower. Always work with your followers movement rather than against it. Follwers will never remember what great moves you have done, they will only remember what the dance felt like. So do less than you think you can but make it feel great.

6) Do not be afraid to stop moving if that is what the music does or if that what it tell you to do. Most breaks in blues dancing occur after a dramatic ( to a greater or lesser extent) lead up. The transition from movement to stillness creates the drama and twitchy movement in that stillness can break the moment.

Hope that is of some help.

[Lory]

Great advice from Chef here... I especially agree with the following...

1) You can learn a whole lot more with an able follower in your arms than you can sat on your butt watching

3) The music is the utter beginning and end of blues dancing.

The most flashy move won't mean a thing if it doesn't fit the music.

4) A great dance can be had almost on the spot and entirely in close hold.

5) When you move your body it is important to wait until you feel your follower has arrived where you want her before you lead her anywhere else. If you don't, it will feel jarring to your follower.

I'd say if in doubt, do 'less'

But I'd also add one more thing, which may put the cat amongst the pigeons, if you're feeling awkward, nervous and uncomfortable dancing slow and close, this will immediately transfer to your partner and make her feel awkward and uncomfortable and there's nothing worse than dancing with someone, who looks and feels like they'd rather be somewhere else
So, do yourself a favour and practice on people you feel totally comfortable with or people you know are completely relaxed about being UCAP on the dancefloor.

[Trouble]

Absolutely agree with Chef and Lory......

There is nothing nicer, sexier or more sumptuous than a lead who does very little but makes you feel special for that 5 mins with small sways, a little wiggle and a lovely smile.

Who needs moves..... blues is about the feel.

[cederic]

3) The music is the utter beginning and end of blues dancing.

For people dancing less than a year that musicality is the biggest issue.

It doesn't matter how small the movements, how simple the moves, getting the music incorporated into the dance is the difficult bit.

All your points and suggestions are great, and I may force myself into the bar for a dance at the weekend

[Gav]

For people dancing less than a year that musicality is the biggest issue.

It doesn't matter how small the movements, how simple the moves, getting the music incorporated into the dance is the difficult bit.

All your points and suggestions are great, and I may force myself into the bar for a dance at the weekend

I still think that the hardest parts about blues dancing are getting over the fact that sometimes it's OK to just stay in close hold and shuffle for a while and knowing what to do with the music.
As far as musicality is concerned, it's easier than in the main room because the music is so much slower and generally has more to it, so you have plenty of time to hear what's coming and decide what to do with it.

[Chef]

For people dancing less than a year that musicality is the biggest issue.

It doesn't matter how small the movements, how simple the moves, getting the music incorporated into the dance is the difficult bit.

For a people dancing less than a year musicality is usually not even on the radar. In most places that I have danced MJ there is precious little musicality to be had in a main room (just an insistent beat). Also you have way more important things to think about like, moves, leading your partner, avoiding hitting other people, avoiding being hit by other people. If you are really flying through your MJ training then you will be thinking about selecting moves that work within the ability of your partner rather than trying to out dance your partner (which would just make you look like a jerk).

So what I am saying is - be gentle on yourself. You already have a huge amount to get right and work on.

But if you are keen on musicality and blues dancing you need to pursue at least two things.

1) Understanding the structure of music and developing that understanding to the point where you feel that music without having to think about it. I would love to point you towards someone who could teach you about the structure of music and how to fit the dance to the music but I only know of the two people that taught me, Nigel Anderson (MJ and Lindy Hop teacher) and Mario Robau (West Coast Swing teacher). Perhaps other people on the forum could suggest places for suitable lessons. Armed with that knowledge (it really does make you listen to music in a new way) find yourself some blues room tracks and just listen to them to find the accent points, where the music makes a swoosh, a wiggle or a break, In listening to them you will pick up the musical clues that tell you these points in the music are coming along.

2) Learn how to be comfortable in close hold and how to smoothly lead your partner when music is slow, movements are small and movement is lead by body movement rather than the MJ way of the lead coming from the arms. All I can really suggest is that you use the internet to contact your local lindy hop scene and make enquiries if they are having any blues dancing classes or courses. Learning argentine tango will also teach you a great deal about leading in close hold but I have found the teachers humourless and I have a limited tolerance of the music. THe whole culture of the dance seems to be about unrequited love, hopelessness and death and that has never been the basis of a good night out for me.

[David Bailey]

I still think that the hardest parts about blues dancing are getting over the fact that sometimes it's OK to just stay in close hold and shuffle for a while and knowing what to do with the music.

It's a different dance from normal MJ, basically.

Most of the standard MJ convention just don't apply - tempo, in-and-out movements, hold, and so on.

[Agente Secreto]

Chef makes some excellent points - and his tango assessment bloew had me chuckling.

My first visit to a JA Southport Blues Room set my confidence back big style. I'd only been dancing 6 months at the time and persuaded myself that all the leads on the floor were better than I ever could be. The rest of the weekend was not good for me. I could handle the UCP thing no problem, and I also had some musicality courtesy of being a musician in my early years it was simply making the error of judging myself against others that screwed me up.

So I think as Chef suggests the idea is to work on blues, musicality and the whole UCP thing in an environment where you're comfortable and with follows that you know are good and can pick up on your emerging musicality.

Some people do provide classes on musicality, and there are venues outside of weekenders where organisers play music that you can dance expressively to. Seek these out and your dance will never be the same again

[whitetiger1518]

......making the error of judging myself against others that screwed me up.

All my favourite dancers are totally unique... I can't point at any one and say they are my number 1.. Every single one just adapts their own personal style to whatever is playing, oh and preferably lets me play too.

Judging yourself (however experienced in any other dance style you may be) against anyone is totally detrimental.. I'd much rather dance in your arms in close hold + 1 move in your own personal style than have you copy the "best" teacher in the world..

You are best at being yourself.

Absolutely Noone can copy the combination of passion, musicality, set of moves and experience that makes each leader them..

The fact that you are asking for advice sets you apart from at least 80% of all dancers.

I look forward to finding you for a dance in the blues room in the future cedric.

Cheers WT

[David Bailey]

Learning argentine tango will also teach you a great deal about leading in close hold

Yes, although the blues posture is different, and that's quite important in both dances.

I think, more important than the hold though, is that learning AT will force you to lead improvisationally and to the music; eventually, anyway. And I think that's the main skill that would transfer over to Blues dancing.

But that said, the best way to learn a dance is to learn that dance, not to learn A N Other dance and use skills from that.

but I have found the teachers humourless

How very dare you.

and I have a limited tolerance of the music. THe whole culture of the dance seems to be about unrequited love, hopelessness and death and that has never been the basis of a good night out for me.

Sounds like a normal evening at Cheshunt to me.

[Dave Hancock]

All your points and suggestions are great, and I may force myself into the bar for a dance at the weekend

Cederic,

I'd urge you to keep going and maybe just do a few dances at a time as the blues room is electric.

If I could offer a couple of bits of advice that worked me pretty well at the start is to observe some and take bits of what you see and like and put it all together, one of my largest influences for blues dancing has a wonderful way of watching his partner and from him I took that the biggest thing is to try and make you lady feel the most special person in the world for the length of the dance.

Do less yourself and pay more attention to her initially, give her a bit of eye contact, enjoy yourself and smile and I'm pretty sure you'll go down well.

If you want some technique then go to Lucky Skillen's classes, the guy's amazing. I also ended up dancing next to him in the blues room for a bit and was aware that Rocky was also close by and found being around such good blues dancers inspired me and had a couple of hours of unbelievably good dancing and it was my favourite time in the blues room since the change in ownership.

So being around some great dancers may inspire you and I'm sure there will be many to inspire you this weekend. Have fun.

[cederic]

1) Understanding the structure of music {...} the accent points, where the music makes a swoosh, a wiggle or a break, In listening to them you will pick up the musical clues that tell you these points in the music are coming along.

I've had 2-3 teachers cover the basics of musicality in an hour or less, and also attended a full day musicality workshop. It all helps tremendously although applying it all in practice continues to be extremely difficult.

2) Learn how to be comfortable in close hold

I'm not sure why, but this has never been a problem for me

smoothly lead your partner when music is slow, movements are small and movement is lead by body movement rather than the MJ way of the lead coming from the arms.

Oddly this isn't necessarily hard either. It's combining this with the musicality that's the hardest thing.

One thing I can do is dance a very bluesy style with very musically aware followers. Giving them the space to play and interpret the music (and my lead) tends to work out extremely well. I'm still largely arm-leading though, rather than body leading.

Bugger, something else I need to learn

[Lory]

a wonderful way of watching his partner

~Snip~

make your lady feel the most special person in the world for the length of the dance.
~snip~

Do less yourself and pay more attention to her


~snip~

give her a bit of eye contact,

~snip~

enjoy yourself and smile


and I'm pretty sure you'll go down well.

Phwoar!!! Too right he'll go down well!

Will miss you this weekend Mr hancock but Tigerpants is standing in, so we should survive

[jive-vee]

Phwoar!!! Too right he'll go down well!

Will miss you this weekend Mr hancock but Tigerpants is standing in, so we should survive

Ooooh Tigerpants is going!?! Yay, I've suddenly found my enthusiasm for Southport!

[Dave Hancock]

Will miss you this weekend Mr hancock but Tigerpants is standing in, so we should survive

You'll have to give him my quota of hugs!

Hope to see you at Southport in May

[Tiger Pants]

You'll have to give him my quota of hugs!

:

.............. and maybe some of his dances too.

[Chef]

I've had 2-3 teachers cover the basics of musicality in an hour or less, and also attended a full day musicality workshop. It all helps tremendously although applying it all in practice continues to be extremely difficult.

Your full day musicality workshop sounds just what I had in mind. Now the hard graft starts. What can be taught in a day can take years to put into practice and when you are in the wild you don't know which track is going to be playing and you don't know the characterisics of your partner, both of which you must discover in real time.

A useful exercise would be to sit down with a peice of paper and a track you like and work out some choreography to it. I did this on a choreography weekend workshop and found it very illuminating.

I'm not sure why, but this has never been a problem for me

In blues dancing the contact between partners is just above the knees and there should be space between the partners at hip level with, as the Texan blues teachers would say, enough space for sweet baby Jesus to pass between you.

Some blues followers do pretty much glue their hips to you either because they wrongly believe this is required or just because they like it that way. Depending upon your maritial or relationship status, or the age difference between you it can feel uncomfortable for the leader. If you have no problems then you may not feel the need to inform your follower about the "sweet baby Jesus" requirement.

I did once have a trick situation in argentine tango lesson. Not having a partner at that time (and not knowing about the need to capture you own and bring them to lessons) I turned up at a lesson and found myself practicing the lesson either on my own (which turned out to be much simpler) or the lady teacher would partner me. This was fine when in practice hold but when she moved into close hold and the chest to chest contact it was different.

There I was, a 50 year old man with a delightful 23 year old woman caressing her hand on the back of my neck and the sudden and unexpected squish of her bosom against my chest made me feel uncomfortable in a "this is just wrong" sort of way. She obviously felt my discomfort and whispered in my ear "if the feel of a womans breasts on your chest is uncomfortable to you then perhaps tango is not the dance for you". I replied with a little quaver in my voice "no, I think I could get used to it". Fortunately it has never been a problem for me from that day,

Oddly this isn't necessarily hard either. It's combining this with the musicality that's the hardest thing.

Yup, thats the real trick. At least you undersand this and are not deterred,

One thing I can do is dance a very bluesy style with very musically aware followers. Giving them the space to play and interpret the music (and my lead) tends to work out extremely well. I'm still largely arm-leading though, rather than body leading.

I always found with musically aware followers was when they have the space is how and when to restart my active leading. I can give no insight into this just that it is likely that you are going to get this bit wrong more often than you will get it right. One thing I can warn you about is that if the follower is looking at their feet while she is doing her thing don't expect her to hand control back to you at a sensible point in the music except by sheer accident. If they could move their feel and listen to the music at the same time they wouldn't need to look at their feet.

Bugger, something else I need to learn

If there was nothing new to discover then the journey would be over.