LEROC Trademark

[John S]

Reading Christine Keeble's post prompted me to go to her home page, where there are a couple of very detailed and interesting history lessons on both Ceroc and LeRoc.
Spotlight on Ceroc
Spotlight on LeRoc
I guess these histories may have been referred to before on the forum, but they might be useful to anyone new to Ceroc/LeRoc, and could help any of the IP experts in reaching a judgment on the registering of the LEROC name.

And possibly relevant to this topic, I read on the Leroc history that:
"Another London based Ceroc/ LeRoc dancer, Nicky Haslam emmigrated to Sydney, Australia where she took out a trademark on both 'LeRoc' and 'Ceroc'. This is why Australian clubs call the dance 'Le Step' or simply 'Modern Jive'."

[ducasi]

You realise you owe him 10p now

Does that mean if anyone uses The L Word from now on, they're breaking copyright?

Copyright is a completely different issue. I can use the words Leroc, Ceroc, IBM, Apple, etc... perfectly legally, until I try to use them to sell you something. At which point I could still use them, but only in very limited ways. I would have to acknowledge the trademark status, and I could not imply any connection or endorsement.

[bigdjiver]

All trademarks applied for/owned under this ID:

Trade marks - find by proprietor

As I read it he tried for LeRoc as a word (WO=words?), but the application was "withdrawn".

He has registered trademarks on two phrases incorporating "LEROC" , and on a a lot of drawings of the word (DW?), including a few with black capitals on white backgrounds.

If black capitals on a white background were generally protected then I would have thought that one image would have been enough. Having several seems to suggest to me that only those particular fonts are protected.

However, small dogs can have very sharp teeth.

[David Bailey]

Copyright is a completely different issue. I can use the words Leroc, Ceroc, IBM, Apple, etc... perfectly legally, until I try to use them to sell you something. At which point I could still use them, but only in very limited ways. I would have to acknowledge the trademark status, and I could not imply any connection or endorsement.

Oh yes - duh, I meant "trademark" not "copyright"

Anyone else have the sudden urge to go shout "LEROC!" five times really fast?

Just me then...

[Lou]

So. let me get this right..

If its just the Logo, which is 'leroc' written in capitals, there's nothing to stop anyone using any other combination of lettering in their advertising literature, apart from the ones he's registered?

And if they did, it would be up to Billy, to first spot it and then pursue legal action against them, which as pointed out in a previous post, would cost in excess of £400?

If as Ducasi said, he now owns the generic name. Would this now mean that nobody could use the word leroc, in any letter combination on their advertising literature from now on?

What is he hoping to gain from this?

What is the optimum out come Billy can achieve from this action?

And lastly, what are the repercussions of using the name, for existing historic 'user's' in the future?

That's an excellent summary.

Can I just add a couple of bits.

The reason Ducasi believes that Billy owns the generic name is that Billy has said so on his website.

This seemed fishy to a lot of people, so that's when DavidJames did his bit of detective work & found the actual Trademark. When we looked at the trademark pages, it only seemed to relate to a set of graphics (in a similar font to that already used by Ceroc :wink .

As none of us are Trademark lawyers, we don't know whether this means that Billy is (in the words of the Smurf) "almost like lying", or as Christine Keeble more elegantly puts it, "I presume Billy is spoofing", or if, indeed, he's actually telling the truth.

Funny how he's not come back to answer us.

Anyone else have the sudden urge to go shout "LEROC!" five times really fast?

Be very careful - you don't know what you night summon up, or the forces you might unleash...

[David Bailey]

Be very careful - you don't know what you night summon up, or the forces you might unleash...

"CandyRoc" - I wonder if that's trademarked?

But, one positive outcome is that he's got you to change your sig

[Martin]

LEROC in capitals has been used before Billy even started classes to learn the dance.

It was used where I first started to dance (years previously) and I even have a T-shirt with it on, from that same company...

Any attempt to revoke the trademark, can find previous use.

I have trademarked a "name not logo" which included "dance events" - I used Freestyle Frenzie.

I only trademarked it to stop any other dance company using the name for their dance company... I also Had Freestyle Frenzie Ltd and Freestyle Management Ltd as companies.

Trade marks - find by number

Class 41: Teaching dance, dance events, training dance teachers, discos.

Whilst the trademark was still valid (I have now allowed it to expire) some organiser used the word "Freestyle Frenzie" as a dance event... which did not bother me, I just wanted a name for the business and the classes, which had more freestyle time. (but you can still send me your 10p's if you like :na

I could not trademark under clothing as there was a clothing line using "Freestyle".

When you look at the link it appears I registered a scrawling logo - that was in fact my handwriting on the form. It was still the name that was registered.

So it might not be clear when you read it on the web... is it the name or the logo. [as anyone reading my link might think it is the logo - but it was not...]

Does this add more confusion? Will I get those 10p's?

[Martin]

Damn it was only last year it expired.... maybe I should be claiming all those 10p's

[martingold]

LeRoc™* Liberation Front.

Please can i join your front??

[Stuart M]

Anyone else have the sudden urge to go shout "LEROC!" five times really fast?

Be very careful - you don't know what you night summon up...

Phlegm, and lots of it, I guess?

[Gus]

Just an idle thought, but in the words of Brett, "Who gives a damn"? I'm slightly struggling to see what impact Billy's comment is actualy going to have in the real world ... we KNOW he can't stop people using a word that has been in use for 20+ years ....

Bet he's laughing his tartan socks off at the furore he's created.

[Lory]

Bet he's laughing his tartan socks off at the furore he's created.

Maybe?

But it doesn't sound to me as if anyone else is taking it that seriously either.

Its just a good topic of conversation and IMO I don't think he's coming off in a favourable light, especially as he hasn't bothered to respond.

I suspect he was hoping for something more than a good laugh

[Gus]

Its just a good topic of conversation and IMO I don't think he's coming off in a favourable light, especially as he hasn't bothered to respond.

I suspect he was hoping for something more than a good laugh

Surely you're not suggesting he's stirring .... True, been some great comments made. Would love to know what he was really trying to achieve. Time for a poll on his motives?

[philsmove]

While there are at least 8 organisations using Leroc in their name in Bristol
Billy seems to be the only one using it north of the boarder

I imagine Billy wants to keep to it that way

I suspect any one setting up a new Leroc class in Scotland is going to have to risk an expensive legal battle and will be tempted to use a different name

NorthernRoc seems a good one

[Lou]

While there are at least 8 organisations using Leroc in their name in Bristol
Billy seems to be the only one using it north of the boarder

Ahhh... but that's not quite true, Phil.

To quote Yoda; "No. There is another".

Do a quick google for Leroc Scotland & you'll see what I mean...

Although I'm sure there are more interesting conspiracy theories for Gus.

[David Bailey]

NorthernRoc seems a good one

Brilliant

[ducasi]

Do a quick google for Leroc Scotland & you'll see what I mean...

There are two "Leroc Scotland"s. No idea who used the name first, but the other one usually prefers to call itself the "CPN Dance Company", and as they operate in a different geographical areas, I'm not sure if this is really a big problem...

[Billy Cullen]

Just to put everyone at rest, can I make it clear that it is NOT my intention to take action on anybody, the rule of common sense should be used first?
It’s simply to protect the mark or marks that are registered to the company and myself.

If someone should infringe the mark or mark’s I think great consideration will be exercised before action is taken by both myself and the Trade Mark Agents, the reason for the post was simply to inform people of the recent developments.

Throughout the two year process I have taken legal advise from both the Trade Mark Authority and my Trade Mark Agents who are acting on my behalf to ensure all legal aspects were carried out in a correct and proper manner.

I hope this will clear up a few of the questions raised, and the reasoning behind the registration.

[Martin]

Just to put everyone at rest, can I make it clear that it is NOT my intention to take action on anybody, the rule of common sense should be used first?
It’s simply to protect the mark or marks that are registered to the company and myself.

If someone should infringe the mark or mark’s I think great consideration will be exercised before action is taken by both myself and the Trade Mark Agents, the reason for the post was simply to inform people of the recent developments.

Throughout the two year process I have taken legal advise from both the Trade Mark Authority and my Trade Mark Agents who are acting on my behalf to ensure all legal aspects were carried out in a correct and proper manner.

I hope this will clear up a few of the questions raised, and the reasoning behind the registration.

To put it in the terms of my latest dance partner... don't wrap it in cotton wool... tell me straight...


Or in Adam Sandler speak, in Mr Deeds... all I hear is blah blah blah....<edit>

In my speak, you have used many words, and failed to say much...

[John S]

Just to put everyone at rest, can I make it clear that it is NOT my intention to take action on anybody, the rule of common sense should be used first?
It’s simply to protect the mark or marks that are registered to the company and myself.

If someone should infringe the mark or mark’s I think great consideration will be exercised before action is taken by both myself and the Trade Mark Agents, the reason for the post was simply to inform people of the recent developments.

Sounds to me like there is at least a preparedness on Billy's part to take action against anyone who infringes his intellectual property - which of course is why anyone goes to the expense of registering and thus protecting the IP in the first place - otherwise, what's the point?