To bounce or not to bounce?

[Andy McGregor]

Because you're learning how to lead the move within the convention of a simple dance, not learning the complexities of how to lead weight distribution.

And, to get back to the subject of this thread, you would find it very difficult to provide the subtle lead required for weight distribution if you bounced your hands up and down.

[David Bailey]

Are you saying that you believe you step on every other beat in MJ?

Sometimes I don't step at all, I just stand still and revel in my magnificence.

[David Bailey]

Why not simply lead her to move the leg you want her to move?

To be fair, in the Manhatten, you do need to specify that footwork is mirrored; it's probably worth making that explicit. And in the context of a Modern Jive class, the easiest way to do that is probably to specify which foot goes forwards and back, for both partners.

Heh, the joy of teaching Tango is the simplicity. I was setting up for my AT class at Berko Ceroc on Sunday, whilst Howard and his demo were rehearsing their class. Their rehearsals were incredibly involved, complex, very script-driven; I was in awe of both the amount of work put into the prep, and of the amount you need to remember to effectively teach the class.

Whereas me? I taught a sidestep...

[David Bailey]

Because you're learning how to lead the move within the convention of a simple dance, not learning the complexities of how to lead weight distribution.

Blimey, all you're asking them to do is to put her weight on a particular foot. I do that all the time at beginner AT classes. Most people get it immediately.

[jivecat]

I was in awe of both the amount of work put into the prep, and of the amount you need to remember to effectively teach the class.

Huh. Reminds me of work.

[straycat]

And, to get back to the subject of this thread, you would find it very difficult to provide the subtle lead required for weight distribution if you bounced your hands up and down.

Perhaps so, but ironically - to get even closer to said thread subject - a full body bounce would make it easier to lead

[straycat]

Huh. Reminds me of work.

Probably because it is work. Fun work, perhaps, but still work.

[Andy McGregor]

Sometimes I don't step at all, I just stand still and revel in my magnificence.

I couldn't help it, I got an image of David Bailey revelling in his magnificence in the shower - I'm now going to roll naked in the snow to try to take my mind off it

[David Bailey]

I couldn't help it, I got an image of David Bailey revelling in his magnificence in the shower - I'm now going to roll naked in the snow to try to take my mind off it

Shower?

Who told?

[Captain Jack]

I couldn't help it, I got an image of David Bailey revelling in his magnificence in the shower - I'm now going to roll naked in the snow to try to take my mind off it

From what I've seen he does everything (including taking a shower) in a suit these days

I tried last week to lead a Manhattan (for the first time). Seemed like a basic salsa step to me. But the footwork seemed to confuse at least half the ladies. That's what happens when there's no footwork in a dance - everyone's brain goes to mush ...

Can I just mention that meringue uses hip motion? Try that in a MJ class and you get some very funny looks ...

[ant]

From what I've seen he does everything (including taking a shower) in a suit these days

Blimey CJ I didn't know you were that intimate with him.

I tried last week to lead a Manhattan (for the first time). Seemed like a basic salsa step to me. But the footwork seemed to confuse at least half the ladies. That's what happens when there's no footwork in a dance - everyone's brain goes to mush ...

What foot did you lead off from CJ? If you led your right foot forward, her left foot that would be confusing as the standard in MJ is the other way round.

[gamebird]

I tried last week to lead a Manhattan (for the first time). Seemed like a basic salsa step to me. But the footwork seemed to confuse at least half the ladies. That's what happens when there's no footwork in a dance - everyone's brain goes to mush ...

Can I just mention that meringue uses hip motion? Try that in a MJ class and you get some very funny looks ...

Can I suggest that (as it was your first time) you maybe got something wrong with your lead? I don't know where you dance, or what level of follow you were dancing with but I'd like to hope that most people ought to be able to follow a Manhattan if it's well lead, just a thought.

Though, as a follow, it's a pet hate of mine when a man* tries to lead footwork but gives up after just a couple of attempts when I don't manage to follow...give me a chance, especially if you're expecting me to pick up a sailor step or something equally visually led - not that a Manhatten really fits into this category.
(*I'm substituting the word man for lead but if I just keep having to interchange lead and led then my brain really will go to mush!)

As for hip motion - there's nothing wrong with that, as long as you can carry it off

[Andy McGregor]

I tried last week to lead a Manhattan (for the first time). Seemed like a basic salsa step to me. But the footwork seemed to confuse at least half the ladies. That's what happens when there's no footwork in a dance - everyone's brain goes to mush ...

I'm afraid this is what happens when the teacher says there's no footwork in a dance that has footwork.

You wonder if the teacher is saying "there's no footwork" out of ignorance or is trying to keep the footwork a secret to make the dance seem easier. IMHO failing to teach correct footwork creates problems.

Can I just mention that meringue uses hip motion? Try that in a MJ class and you get some very funny looks ...

Nothing wrong with a bit of hip action in MJ. Everyone has their own, individual, style. Hip action can look good and feel good - if it feels good, do it!

[David Bailey]

From what I've seen he does everything (including taking a shower) in a suit these days

It disguises my magnificence.

I tried last week to lead a Manhattan (for the first time). Seemed like a basic salsa step to me. But the footwork seemed to confuse at least half the ladies. That's what happens when there's no footwork in a dance - everyone's brain goes to mush ...

Ir's quite similar to a salsa forward-and-back step. The timing's different, but it allows you to do a salsa-accent style, if the music's latin-flavoured.

And I agree with others - if the footwork confuses the ladies, unfortunately this is likely to be down to your lead. Sorry.

[Captain Jack]

It disguises my magnificence.

Ir's quite similar to a salsa forward-and-back step. The timing's different, but it allows you to do a salsa-accent style, if the music's latin-flavoured.

And I agree with others - if the footwork confuses the ladies, unfortunately this is likely to be down to your lead. Sorry.

No need. I'm quite sure my lead wasnt good. Unfortunately my own brain was being turned to mush trying to do the class step before it - a catapult with male and female tunnels (I think that's what you call it).

ant, I think the manhattan was my left forward her right back. As in LA salsa. Cuban salsa is the one that's the other way round (right forward, left back).

[Captain Jack]

Can I suggest that (as it was your first time) you maybe got something wrong with your lead? I don't know where you dance, or what level of follow you were dancing with but I'd like to hope that most people ought to be able to follow a Manhattan if it's well lead, just a thought.

I dont think much of the teacher that runs our local class - the main organiser that is - ironically the teacher that often subs in for him is actually a better teacher.

I'm sure though once I've learnt it a couple more times it'll start to become second nature.

[frodo]

I tried last week to lead a Manhattan (for the first time). Seemed like a basic salsa step to me. But the footwork seemed to confuse at least half the ladies. That's what happens when there's no footwork in a dance - everyone's brain goes to mush ...

Designated footwork makes it easy for the lead.

Far more challenging to have to lead the footwork, in addition to other aspects of the move.

The other challenge is that while it probably will work perfectly well with complete beginners more experienced followers may resist following footwork.

[frodo]

Don't be so quick to dismiss it though - it can, feel great, depending on the execution. It forms a crucial part of Lindy, for example, to the point where the bounce drives much of the movement in the dance, and is used to give an amazing degree of connection.

I don't think bouncing feels bad at all, or gives a bad connection particularly when dancing with people from a lindy or rock and roll background, but I wondering why it would give a better connection than not bouncing.

Would it be something to do with both moving together relative to the environment.

[Lee Bartholomew]

I don't think bouncing feels bad at all, or gives a bad connection particularly when dancing with people from a lindy or rock and roll background, but I wondering why it would give a better connection than not bouncing.

Would it be something to do with both moving together relative to the environment.

dance is a conversation. :eader speaks, follower replies, leader replies to that.

Having a conversation on a flat road is fine, but try having a conversation going over a series of speed bumps at 50mph.

[Andy McGregor]

I don't think bouncing feels bad at all, or gives a bad connection particularly when dancing with people from a lindy or rock and roll background, but I wondering why it would give a better connection than not bouncing.

Would it be something to do with both moving together relative to the environment.

There's a big difference between bouncing the hand between you and both bouncing from the knees as a single unit.

The hand bounce interferes with the connection. In some dances such as Lindy Hop the bounce from the knee, done in sync by lead and follow, seems to help the connection - I'm sure Mr Stray can tell you more on this subject.